British/Commonwealth POW's and the Italian armistice

Hi Colin, Thank you very much for taking the time to post. Unfortunately my period of interest is up until the armistice, so will not included anything on the escaped P.O.Ws due to time space and time constraints. I hadn't heard of 'Hitler's Digger Slaves' but will have a nosey round and see if I can find it. Were and of you Father's escapes in Italy?

At this stage my thesis is in the writing process, My first draft is due September 3rd! So not long to go at all!

 

Sorry, I dont understand your question. However Dad had told me he escaped 4 times, I know once was somewhere in Italy, another was with a Lt James Crawford of the Queens Royal Cameroon Highlanders in October 1943 from Stalag 18b at Spittal en der Drau, Austria (he was captured 4 days later). That is about all I know about his escapes. Exactly where 3 of them were I dont know - could have been Africa, Italy or Austria. My father, like many, did not like talking about the war and died in 1992.
Susans book is about the period you are interested in and about N.Z. POW life in Italy, escapees and experiences with the Italian resistance.
Regards,
Colin R

 

Sorry Colin, my spelling wasn't on the ball this morning. The question was Were any of your fathers escapes in Italy? However you answered the question in your above post. I ask because it struck me during my research that other than after the armistice there were very few escapes or even attempts to escape by POWs in Italy.

 

Colin/Andy

Re Stalag 18b

BBC - WW2 People's War - Dale Carnegie’s “Pursuit of Happiness”, courtesy of Stalag XVIII

Ron

 

A quaint book of 287 pages that deals with escapees and evaders written by Air Commodore Graham Pitchfork, with forward by Air Chief Marshall Sir Lewis Hodges.
It is a small book that deals with escapers and evaders it also goes into detail of the organised groups who risked their lives by moving the soldiers around behind enemy lines while escaping/evading
I hope it may be of some use to you.
It is called shot down and on the run, Commonwealth and British aircrews who got home from behind enemy lines 1940 1945
ISBN number is 1 903365 53 8
Published by the National Archives Kew
I hope this small book may have some small interest for you.
Good luck with your work load mate.

Regards
Cobber

 

I have a Pte C E Cartwright 44480 listed as PG85 in August 1943.
He obviously Escaped as he is not on the 1944 or 1945 lists.

Brian

It would be great if you could find out Fred, though it isn't my main line of research I do come across escapees fairly regularly, and its always great to match stories up.
Thats neat about those letters, guessing they were asking for financial assistance?
I am guessing that reference is in regard to fellows POWs possibly being shot in the process of escaping, or as punishment for escaping. Unfortunately I don't have a list of NZ POWs in German camps, so couldn't tell you which camp Charlie Cartwright was in when he escaped, however Brian would be the man who could possibly assist you with that.

 

Regarding your report in this list "I have all Escapers Reports available listed, both those who escaped through the Lines and those who got into Switzerland. Brian"

I am researching my uncle's (James King) Royal Engineers, WW2 exploits mainly his time whilst being a POW held in Italy, I have just read a letter from him sent to my sister his address was this is what is on the front of the letter:-
Rank - SPR 2075136 RE
P.of W.Camp -53 SETTORE No 1
PM3300 ITALY
The date on the back is 4.6.1943.
I have not been able to find this camp, I suspect it close to Switzerland as he and a pal escaped over the Alps James was the only one to survive. and was close to death on his arrival. Do you have any info on James please.
Regards Arthur
South Australia

 

Arthur,
I have posted regarding PG 53. Perhaps the 1 indicates a further work detail from the Camp.

WO 208/4257 contains Report made by Spr. J. King to MI9 when he arrived in Switzerland.The Report is the 54th in sequence from the start of the File.

He was Captured 28/5/42 and was interrogated in Switzerland 7/11/43.

Brian

Regarding your report in this list "I have all Escapers Reports available listed, both those who escaped through the Lines and those who got into Switzerland. Brian"

I am researching my uncle's (James King) Royal Engineers, WW2 exploits mainly his time whilst being a POW held in Italy, I have just read a letter from him sent to my sister his address was this is what is on the front of the letter:-
Rank - SPR 2075136 RE
P.of W.Camp -53 SETTORE No 1
PM3300 ITALY
The date on the back is 4.6.1943.
I have not been able to find this camp, I suspect it close to Switzerland as he and a pal escaped over the Alps James was the only one to survive. and was close to death on his arrival. Do you have any info on James please.
Regards Arthur
South Australia

 

G'day Arthur,

I have been looking for part of your combination of numbers for some time.
My father was POW in Italy in PG54, as I have previously posted on the forum. But the numbers PM3300 didn't (and still don't) make much sense to me. The experts here tell me that PG54 was not far from Rome - a fair distance from Switzerland.
We seem to live in the same paddock, if you are interested in a yarn about it perhaps you could PM me and we can arrange a phone call.

Ooroo,

Cliff

 

As the lists of POW were compiled in August 1943 they can only be used to confirm a prisoner was in Italy and the Camp where they were held at that particular time.
Most were in other Camps prior to this and many were moved northwards after the information had been gathered.
That is what probably happened to those who escaped into Switzerland who are listed as being in a more southerly location. PM3300 was Central Italy.

Brian

G'day Arthur,

I have been looking for part of your combination of numbers for some time.
My father was POW in Italy in PG54, as I have previously posted on the forum. But the numbers PM3300 didn't (and still don't) make much sense to me. The experts here tell me that PG54 was not far from Rome - a fair distance from Switzerland.
We seem to live in the same paddock, if you are interested in a yarn about it perhaps you could PM me and we can arrange a phone call.

Ooroo,

Cliff

 

So far as I am aware, no Allied POWs were shot in Italy as punishment for escaping. I don't know of any instances of even POW members of partisan bands being shot on capture. They were sent to POW camps in Germany.

Mr George Evans gives a good account of his and other POWs' time with a partisan band here BBC - WW2 People's War - A British PoW becomes a Partisan, 1943-1945

Here's two Peter.


Courtesy of ADM199

 

Drew,

I was talking about ex-POWs on the run after most of the Italian POW camps were emptied. So far as I am aware no Allied POWs arrested by the Germans later, in 1944/45, were shot on recapture, nor were any of those caught in Partisan bands.

Both the two unfortunate cases you cite do not fit into those groups, and being shot resisting arrest is an entirely different matter. Here is another example (and there are many others) of an exPOW being shot. It is from the remarkable story of George Evans "A British PoW becomes a Partisan, 1943-1945" in the BBC Archive at
BBC - WW2 People's War - A British PoW becomes a Partisan, 1943-1945
In July 1944 we were contacted by two ex-PoWs wishing to join our band; they consented to fall in with our system. Their names were Joseph Fenton, an ex-Scots Guard and Percy Dunmore ex-Signals Regt. Fenton impressed the Italians, but Dunmore unfortunately did not make such a good impression, as he would not accept discipline. Time moved on and Dunmore, Fenton and myself talked about crossing the border into Switzerland. Nanda, our leader, begged me not to go, but I could not see our troops arriving to relieve us in the foreseeable future and, with the other two, I felt we could achieve the crossing.

We left the partisans with their good wishes and moved to a spot south of Biella which was a small location named Arro and where there was a railway crossing. I knew the crossing keeper very well and also many of the civilians in the area. We stayed close to the railway crossing beside the river and I went to a local farm to get some food whilst Fenton and Dunmore went to the rail crossing, hoping the man in charge would give them some cigarettes. Unfortunately a German patrol had arrived at the crossing, surprising Fenton and Dunmore, who were asked to surrender. Fenton realised they could not escape but Dunmore made a dash for it and was shot dead. Fenton was then paraded through the streets of Biella. I was left pondering my future, but news travelled fast and Nanda my partisan leader arrived and I rejoined the partisans.

 

Just the messenger

I'm sure if there is Brian will have an account somewhere mate.

Cheers
Andy

 

I have to concur with Andy... Brian will tell you if there is when he catches up with this...

 

A small number of Allied escaped POWs were executed upon recapture if found wearing civilian clothes and armed, or if they resisted arrest. If wearing uniform, even if with a Partisan group, they were removed to POW camps in Germany.

The outstanding New Zealander who was tortured and executed was 34 year old Lance Corporal David Russell who was awarded the George Cross for valour.
CWGC :: Casualty Details
He was originally wounded and captured in North Africa at Rudweistat Ridge. He was on the run from 8 September 1943 but was found in civilian clothing and with a map and treated as a spy.

Another New Zealander, Private James McLeod, was killed in March 1944 near Passarella di Sopra by Fascist troops of the San Marco brigade. He had attempted to escape and was shot in the back whilst running. His companion, also a New Zealander who put up no resistance was captured and sent to a POW camp.

Two other POWs on the run executed by firing squad were New Zealander Corporal Frank Bowes CWGC :: Casualty Details and an Australian from Perth, Kenneth Osborne. After a summary trial they were executed along with their Partisan comrades at 12.30 PM on 21 February 1944 by Fascist soldiers of the 63rd Tagliamento Battalion.

 

Visited the railway station at Bronzollo this spring. Talked to some locals. This place needs a plaque to commemorate what happened there!

 

Andy,
A couple of names that are synonomous to resrachers from your neck of the woods are

Bill Rudd from Australia http://www.aifpow.com/

and

Ken Fenton from New Zealand who I have lost contact with and helped m a lot in my Italian researches as well as he was bi lingual and obtained some interesting articles
(If anyone knows how Ken is I would grateful for a reply)

There will be a lot of functions being held this September in Italy in respect to the partisans to celebrate seventy years since the signing of the armistice and there involvement after the signing.

Trevor

 

What a blast from the past to see this thread up on the new content page!

Trevor, I referenced both Bill Rudd and Ken Fenton's work in my dissertation. Both were very helpful. I hadn't even considered that it was the 70th anniversary of the armistice this year. I shall keep it in mind.

 

Hello Andy, fascinating thread, just discovered.

Marco