British 50th (Northumbrian) Division in Normandy

Discussion in 'Higher Formations' started by MLW, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    So does any one here have some information on the US 987th B-BTRY FAB supporting the 50th Division on July 6th 1944?

    There is a dearth of information on the US 987th Field Artillery Battalion this side of the 'pond', but I understand that it landed at Gold Beach on D+1 in support of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division. I also believe it remained with British XXX Corps - of which 50 Div was part - throughout the Normandy Campaign, so it is not surprising that it was supporting 50 Div on the 6 July 1944.

    The 8 July 1944 saw the resumption of Operation Dauntless (main aim the capture of Hottot; called 'Hot Spot' by the troops), with the first phase (Maori 1) seeing 50 Div attacking the high ground around the cross-roads west of La Croix des Landes, Point 136, and the spur just south of Hottot.

    The three weeks prior to this had been a period of no spectacular action, just continuous hard fought contact/engagements with the Germans; both sides jockeying for position. It looks like the 987th were supporting one of these contacts/engagements.

    Contrary to poular belief there was quite alot of mutual support between the US and British units, for example, the 2nd US Armored Division relieved the British 7th Armoured Division (The Desert Rats) on the right of the 50 Div on the 1st/2nd July 1944.

    I could give you the general position of the 69th, 151st, 231st and attached 56th Infantry Brigade of 50 Div at this time if this is helpful to you?!

    Do you have the 987th's War Diaries, as these should give specifics?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  2. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    The 987th came ashore on 6 June, and I think were the only US combat unit to fight with British 2nd Army in Normandy. If memory serves the 987th gave some useful support to 50th Div and XXX Corps generally, though I don't know when it moved elsewhere. According to Shelby Stanton's US order of battle in WWII, the 987th was raised from a unit of the Ohio National Guard. It was equipped with the M12 Gun Motor Carriage (GMC). This was a redundant M3 Lee tank chassis carrying an M1917/18 GPF 155mm gun. Not many were so converted and Army Ground Forces didn't foresee much use for the M12, which may be why the 987th went to 2nd Army. The M12 was not a sophisticated piece of equipment, but it proved very useful in combat. In the winter campaigns of 44-45, the M12 did a lot of direct fire pillbox busting on the Siegfried Line.
     
  3. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    987 FAB were part of 5 AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery) from early 1944 until they reverted to US control on - coincidentally - 6 July 1944.

    The 5 AGRA war diary has a fair amount of detail on shoots during June, so this may also be the case for July. NARA ought to have their unit journal (= war diary) but it might be better to speak to them rather than trying to use their catalogue! NARA does list a unit history, though.
     
  5. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    987 FAB were part of 5 AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery) from early 1944 until they reverted to US control on - coincidentally - 6 July 1944.

    The 5 AGRA war diary has a fair amount of detail on shoots during June, so this may also be the case for July. NARA ought to have their unit journal (= war diary) but it might be better to speak to them rather than trying to use their catalogue! NARA does list a unit history, though.

    I have the 5AGRA war-diary.
    Let me know if you need anything!
    Best
    Rob
     
  6. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    I have found a reference in one of my 50 Div battalion histories that may be a clue to the support the US 987th Field Artillery Battalion gave on the 6 July 1944.

    From the '8th Battalion The Durham Light Infantry 1939-1945 (Major PJ Lewis - N&M Press):

    "On the night of July 5th/6th Lieut. SC Rood led a raid against an enemy strongpoint in a house overlooking C Company's position, with the object of obtaining prisoners. Great importance was attached to this raid by the new Brigade Commander, Brigadier DS Gordon DSO. and it was carefully rehearsed by the men taking part. As it was thought that the house was held by, at the most, a platoon, the strength of Rood's party was only thirteen men, but the raid was supported by the fire of two field regiments and one medium battery. The result of this support was disappointing; when the party got near the house they were met by intense machine-gun and mortar fire, which killed one man and wounded three others, while the remainder were pinned to the ground. It was quite clear that the raid had failed. The Brigade Commander was somewhat displeased with this, and sought to attribute the blame to Lieut-Colonel Lidwill. When two weeks later this house was attacked by two companies of the 10th DLI (DLI = Durham Light Infantry), who had over fifty casulaties before it was captured, the true strength of the place was revealed to Higher Command."

    The reference to a medium battery is the pertinent point...

    For clarity, the 8th Bn Durham Light Infantry, was brigaded with the 6th and 9th Bn's Durham Light Infantry, in 151st Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division. The 10th Bn Durham Light Infantry was the 6th Bn's duplicate (and once a second line battalion) and now of 70th Infantry Brigade, 49th (West Riding) Division.

    I trust this assists.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  7. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Very interesting, Steve. I think Gordon was generally considered a good commander, but he doesn't look good in that story. (I used the Lewis book, don't know how I missed the quoted bit.) As to 'medium battery,' I wouldn't immediately assume that was the 987th. The 5th AGRA was in the area and as I recall it included the 7th Medium Regt, which had often supported the 50th in Africa and Sicily. Strictly speaking, the 987th was a heavy artillery unit (155mm), not medium.
     
  8. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    5 AGRA
    3/4/5th July
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    5 AGRA
    6/7/8 July
    [​IMG]
     
  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Rob, is there a target list for 6 July? I can see something lurking at the back...
     
  11. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Sir,
    Again no historian but heres a link which may be of relevance or a source of further enquiry?
    987th Field Artillery Battalions - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History

    A photograph of a 155mm of this unit can be found at

    Collections search | Imperial War Museums=

    Steve 10th DLI were originally second line back in 1940 and had the 50th not been brought back from Sicily may well have been an assault battalion.Thought I would mention it in case Verriers looks in.

    Best
    Clifford
     
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Rob,

    I don't see anything in the 5 AGRA War Diairies referring to the support for 8th Bn Durham Light Infantry on the 5th/6th July 1944. Do you conclude that support was from divisional artillery and if so, do you have the pertinent War Diairies for the 74th, 90th or 124th Field Regiment, RA? The relevance of the question is that the US 987th Field Artillery Battalion were divisional artillery of 50 Div at this time!

    NB. I smiled at the reference for 5AGRA on the 4 July to the 'crash' celebrating American Independence Day!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Steve 10th DLI were originally second line back in 1940 and had the 50th not been brought back from Sicily may well have been an assault battalion.Thought I would mention it in case Verriers looks in.

    Best
    Clifford

    Aye, the 10th DLI and the rest of the 70th Infantry Brigade lost their 'second line' tag when they transferred from the 23rd (Northumbrian) Division to the 'Polar Bears' around the 1 July 1940; i.e. at the same time the 69th Infantry Brigade transferred from the 23rd (Northumbrian) Division to the 50th (Northumbrian) Division.

    Did you see Jim (Verrieres) was quoted on a DLI matter in the local press recently?

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  14. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    Hello Rob,

    I don't see anything in the 5 AGRA War Diairies referring to the support for 8th Bn Durham Light Infantry on the 5th/6th July 1944. Do you conclude that support was from divisional artillery and if so, do you have the pertinent War Diairies for the 74th, 90th or 124th Field Regiment, RA? The relevance of the question is that the US 987th Field Artillery Battalion were divisional artillery of 50 Div at this time!

    NB. I smiled at the reference for 5AGRA on the 4 July to the 'crash' celebrating American Independence Day!

    Best,

    Steve.

    Steve + Idler
    U.S.987th FA Btn were under command of 5AGRA at this time, not divisional.
    Appx R of the 5AGRA July diary states;
    ACTIVITIES OF THE 987 US FA BTN. but unfortunatly I do not have this or the target sheets, it's on my to do list.
    nor the div arty diaries.
    Sorry chaps
    Best
    Rob
     
  15. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Deleted!
     
  16. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Steve + Idler
    U.S.987th FA Btn were under command of 5AGRA at this time, not divisional.
    Appx R of the 5AGRA July diary states;
    ACTIVITIES OF THE 987 US FA BTN. but unfortunatly I do not have this or the target sheets, it's on my to do list.
    nor the div arty diaries.
    Sorry chaps
    Best
    Rob

    Thanks Rob, that is very useful information i.e. the fact that Appendix R contains information on the US 987th FAB.

    A couple of questions:

    1) Are the AGRA target sheets comprehensive, namely, that they will include all 'stonks'; and
    2) When is acquiring Appendix R and the target lists due to reach the top of your to do list? :)

    Question 1) arises from my knowledge of the 72nd Field Regiment, RA's War Diaries for September 1939 to December 1940, which carry little information of this nature.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  17. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    Thanks Rob, that is very useful information i.e. the fact that Appendix R contains information on the US 987th FAB.

    A couple of questions:

    1) Are the AGRA target sheets comprehensive, namely, that they will include all 'stonks'; and
    2) When is acquiring Appendix R and the target lists due to reach the top of your to do list? :)

    Question 1) arises from my knowledge of the 72nd Field Regiment, RA's War Diaries for September 1939 to December 1940, which carry little information of this nature.

    Best,

    Steve.

    Steve
    AGRA Target lists, Task Tables, Fireplans, are indeed usually very comprehensive
    as they detail the controled firing of up to eight or more Corps artillery regts for one action, but are usually coded.
    To do list as soon as i can get over to Kew.:rolleyes:
    Rob
     
  18. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    U.S.987th Fld Btn
    5AGRA - Mar-Jun 1944

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    Sorry about the quality but the paper is like tisue!!
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

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