Brigadier I . A . Roche DSO

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Ahmed Muhammad, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. Hi any idea about the Brigadiar, where was he posted on promotion to rank of Brigadiar?? ?
    I post the Gazette below

    Attached Files:

  2. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Sorry, I do not understand your question?

  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I think he means that during the war he commanded 1/9th GR, presuambly as a Lieut-Colonel or Colonel (although Lieut-Colonel G.S. Nangle took over at some point in early '44 [Edit: 29/1/44 at 10:00hrs]. That extract has him promoted to Brigadier in 1947, but to what post was he assigned? Commanding an Infantry Brigade somewhere? In some static or area command?
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
  4. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member


    I searched a PDF document I have entitled "Army Commands 1900-2011" detailing every senior army officer post including the Indian Army for Brigadiers and upwards and found no record of Ian Aird Roche.

    The History of 1/9 Ghurkhas on Google books says he left 1/9 on 29 Jan (no year) but tying in with Charley's comments it's probably 1944. It also says he as soon as Lt-Col Nangle arrived he went to India on a liaison visit.

    An Indian Army Officer Lists of 1945 has him serving at the "Regimental Center".

    A later one (October 1945) has him working as "General Staff Officer (GSO) 1st Gr" . I've no idea what "Gr" means but it is not 'Gurkha Rifles' as that is abbreviated 'G.R'. throughout the document.

    Hope this helps

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  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles


    Gr being an ugly abbreviation for grade 1--and that is usually a Lieut-Colonel or Colonel, so it fits his ladder of advancement.
    gmyles likes this.
  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    In 1947 Compton Mackenzie was touring India as research for Eastern Epic, his weighty but unfinished history of the Indian contribution to the Second World War. He has the following:

    We reached the big fort in Thal after about three hours’ driving
    and were welcomed by Brigadier Roche and Major Stephen, his
    Brigade-Major. Yousuf and I were put up in the Mess, and C.
    stayed with Major and Mrs. Grice whose three brindled Great
    Danes were enough to frighten even a marauding party of Pathans.
    I rested for half an hour, and then Yousuf and I went round the
    defences with Brigadier Roche and Major Stephen. The Valley of
    the Kurram was considered a likely way in for Russian tanks at first
    and German tanks afterwards, so dragon’s teeth had been sown all
    over the place. We went up to the Kurram Piquet which stands on a
    small hill about 300 feet high and overlooks a wide view of the coun-
    try. Brigadier Roche gave me a clear idea of the proposed defence of
    this vital area.

    Thal Command' is later mentioned (mistakenly rendered as Thai by the computer), which is on the North-West Frontier.

    Full text of "All Over The Place Fifty Thousand Miles By Sea Air Road And Rail"
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  7. Lolzzzx.. ..i wish to know what was he commanding after promotion. Yes my research tells me same...he was commanding some brigade in 1947 but I don't know which one and in which duration .
  8. Thanx c
    Thanx Charley
    Which brigade was this??? Coz Thal Brigade (A frontier Brigade) was absorbed by Kohat Brigade in 1945 and Kohaat Brigade was redesignated as Kohat Independant Brigade. However, I am posting a crest pic which shows name of Thal , Landi Kotal and Nowshehra in it.
    Thal is a place (Now in Frontier Region) in KP Province of Pakistan

    Attached Files:

  9. G
    Gr....means 'Grade'
    General Staff Officer Grade-1
  10. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I don't know.

    I'm afraid that I'm no expert on the Indian Army, I just happen to know a little about 1/9th GR from my reading about 4th Indian Division. I think that you'll have to consult one of the big Indian Army reference works on organisation, but I can't advise which.

    Good luck.
  11. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    If Roche had a Bde Maj then he would definitely have been commanding a Brigade.

  12. Question to which I am seeking answer is "Which Brigade???"
    In fact I am trying to trace Noshehra Brigade and my research so far points that it was this Noshehra Brigade which was shifted to That when Thal Frontier Brigade was absorbed in Kohat Brigade in 1945. But I need substantiation on it
  13. My Hypothesis is
    After WW2 major restructuring was carried out in North West Frontier. Landi Kotal Brigade was disbanded, Thal brigade was absorbed. Bannu Brigade and Kohat Brigade (Independant Brigades) were given to Pakistan. 1st Peshawar Division became 9 (F) Division. To cover space created by disbandment of Thal Brigade in Kurrum, 1st (Noshera) Brigade was moved to Thal and it was this brigade to Which I A Roche was posted.
    Can I have some disbandment order of Thal Brigade???
  14. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

  15. Thanx Charley. I think you are right. I will lay hands very soon on it
    Regards Ahmed
  16. Staffsyeoman

    Staffsyeoman Member

    He went to George Watson's College in Edinburgh, entering 1917
    DSO London Gazette 19 Aug 43 for Middle East.
    Lt.Col. T/Brigadier (ex-IA) 30 August 1944
  17. Brendan Fleming

    Brendan Fleming New Member

    Slightly late to this forum, however... Brigadier Ian Aird Roche was my Father-in-Law's father (my wife's Grandfather). My FiL has a lot of knowledge about him & his life. I don't know that much other, but know he was stationed with his family in/near Dehradun, India when his wife took ill and died in 1943. His wife was the daughter of Sir Arthur Churcher, erstwhile Mayor of Windsor. We have a copy of the report that was written for the recommendation of award of his DSO (also in 1943). I can find out about his later life, post WW2, unless this has been answered? He retired to a house called Penny Plot in Lyme Regis, Dorset in later life, before moving to Uplyme where his oldest son's widow still resides.

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