Bren or BAR.

You are quite right about some of the things taught. I remember when they said that we could use Russian ammo in our weapons but they could not use ours in theirs! Imagine some poor squaddie trying to feed 7.62x54 or 7.62x39 into his L1A1.

With respect to the use of Mark VIIIz ammo, I put up a long post some while ago about interchangeability of Mark VII and VIIIz. It was allowed in rifles and Brens in either an emergency or if less muzzle flash was required, e.g. on night patrols.

...and what is even more fun than firing a Vickers is firing twin Vickers on an A.A. mount!

Regards
TonyE

 

Small Arms Training Manuals

Twin Vickers pamphlet above.

Fredlander yes if barrel is the optimum for calibre is it not the case (memory again) that the velocity would not increase if the barrel exceed the formula length for the round fired?


Some very good pamphlets above.

 

Why does the drum mag have a winder?

Smudge
I have never seen a Lewis drum but I suppose the principle is the same as on the Thompson drum. The spring-loading cannot be activated (with the wind-up key) before the magazine is loaded.

If you look at the modern Ultimax 100 light machine gun the cartridges are loaded one by one into its drums, the spring being wound progressively. Takes a lot longer time.

 

Re: Lewis magazines:

LEWIS GUNS TESTED IN USA 1916 - British Pathe


Bren hopper




Lewis hopper

I never came across either of these loading hoppers, these guns were out of service. Fired them at a trials unit, on active service I am sure they were very handy!

Re: Thompson Gun fired one at a flak jacket draped over a plank of wood 10 metres or so. Not a powerful weapon.

 

If we're posting pics of Brens, here's one of mine. It's a 1943 Inglis and I love it. I can see why it's regarded as the best LMG of all time. They're utterly, utterly wonderful weapons. I use mine as often as possible at re-enactment events (and yes, I know by saying that last bit, that I am now public enemy number 1).

 

I was not a fighting soldier but was well trained on the Bren, the chap on the Bren on the above picture should have a firm over grip not as illustrated. I used to keep a Bren on my wireless truck and when a sniper took a shot at me on D-Day my driver tried to hit him with the Bren, but the mag had been badly loaded and didn't fire. A truck eventually ran over it one night so it could fire round corners.

 

For some reason I thought that the BAR weighed about 15 pounds but I just looked it up and it weighed about the same as a Bren.

So I have to admit that is pretty much game, set and match for the Bren, in my opinion (Which of course has no value at all )

But John Browning did come up with the design almost 20 years earlier than the Bren.

Dave

 

For some reason I thought that the BAR weighed about 15 pounds but I just looked it up and it weighed about the same as a Bren.

So I have to admit that is pretty much game, set and match for the Bren, in my opinion (Which of course has no value at all )

But John Browning did come up with the design almost 20 years earlier than the Bren.

Dave
Not really since the Bren (Brno) was, I believe designed and developed in the beginning of the 1920's. OK, That was not the BREN, but the weapon the Bren originated from.........

Modern Firearms - ZB 26

 

Weight24.4 lb (11.1 kg)Length45.5 in (1.156 m)Cartridge.303 BritishCalibre0.303 in (7.7 mm)ActiongasRate of fire450-600 round/minMuzzle velocity2,450 ft/s (745 m/s)Feed systembox 30 roundsSightsIron
The Vickers-Berthier (VB) light machine gun manufactured by Vickers-Armstrong was based on a French design of just before World War I. In 1925 Vickers in Britain purchased licence rights for production in their Crayford factory, and as a replacement for the Lewis Gun.
Contents




[hide]

• 1 History
• 2 Appearance and Design
• 3 Modern usage
• 4 External links

[edit] History

During the 1932 British Army trials of several Light machine guns, the Vickers-Berthier was in direct competition with the Bren gun. The British army adopted the Bren, and the Vickers-Berthier was adopted instead by the British Indian Army. A production line for the Vickers-Berthier Light Machine-Gun Mk 3 was established at the Ishapore Rifle Factory. The reasons for its failure were simple; it was heavier, at 24 pounds than the lighter Bren at 22 pounds. It was also longer, and hard to stow away. The Bren also had a faster firing rate and far better portability. The only advantage the weapon had over the Bren was the far simpler design. It could be produced more efficiently. In the end however, that didn't matter

 

I was not a fighting soldier but was well trained on the Bren, the chap on the Bren on the above picture should have a firm over grip not as illustrated.


I did have a firm grip. I only have small hands.

 

I have never seen a Lewis drum but I suppose the principle is the same as on the Thompson drum. The spring-loading cannot be activated (with the wind-up key) before the magazine is loaded.


As far as I can remember the lewis gun magazines did not use a spring to chamber the rounds it used a cam and pawl system on the weapon.

Fruitcake
I did have a firm grip. I only have small hands.

It looks like you are holding the Bren with your left hand underneath the butt as opposed to over the top of it in the recessed part where it should be. (Unless it is the early version with a grip underneath the butt).

I first fired a Bren (.303) in 1980 with the ACF, when I joined the regulars in 1983 I got to fire the 7.62mm version. In my first unit (I was an RE) I became a AFV432 driver and the LMG then became my personal weapon (with different units) until 1992 when I got my L86 LSW.

The LMG was a joy to use, lighter than the GPMG and easy to fire from the hip when doing close assault, quick change barrel and mags (quicker than the GPMG as well). I have only seen the BAR at Shrivenham and did not get too fire it as we were showing the REME the big scarey SLR's (they had only seen and fired the L85 with its next to nil recoil). Very easy to double tap and even when on auto I could still fire single rounds (which I frequently did in competition shoots).

One thing about the accuracy, the Brens we had in cadets had 3 different length barrels. Our instructors (all ex Malayan Vets) said the shorter barrels were issued to them in the jungle to reduce the length of the weapon and also reduce its accuracy, I have not seen any other evidence of this though. We also had Lee Enfield No5 rifles at my cadet detachment.

 

If we're posting pics of Brens, here's one of mine. It's a 1943 Inglis and I love it. I can see why it's regarded as the best LMG of all time. They're utterly, utterly wonderful weapons. I use mine as often as possible at re-enactment events (and yes, I know by saying that last bit, that I am now public enemy number 1).



correct me if i am wrong but you loader is on the wrong side so can't spot for you. Unless there is a guy on your right out of sight.

 

If we're posting pics of Brens, here's one of mine. It's a 1943 Inglis and I love it. I can see why it's regarded as the best LMG of all time. They're utterly, utterly wonderful weapons. I use mine as often as possible at re-enactment events (and yes, I know by saying that last bit, that I am now public enemy number 1).



Just noticed the spare barrel across the no 2's back, we used to carry ours in the spare parts wallet and drop it next to the gun in case we needed it (at least until they withdrew the spare barrels). If the no 2 was doing the mag changes or spotting he would not be using his rifle, quite often I did the mag changes myself though as it was easy to do in the shoulder with the right hand. The no 2 could then use his rifle or be refilling my mags.

 

As far as I can remember the lewis gun magazines did not use a spring to chamber the rounds it used a cam and pawl system on the weapon.



It looks like you are holding the Bren with your left hand underneath the butt as opposed to over the top of it in the recessed part where it should be. (Unless it is the early version with a grip underneath the butt).

Nope, it's a proper over-butt grip.

 

re the Lewis mags, the mag in the photo is a Bren 100 round drum mag derived from the Vickers K Go.

This is my Mk3 with the Mk4 short barrel (The mk3 gun used the Mk4 barrel)



Bren Fixed line Sight for Indirect firing in the Vickers Gun Role, it didnt do very well in replacing the Vickers!





This is a Bulgarian contract Czech made ZB39 Bren.



Mk Brens coming back from France in 1940



Relic Bren found in the sand dunes of Dunkirque.

 

correct me if i am wrong but you loader is on the wrong side so can't spot for you. Unless there is a guy on your right out of sight.

Eh? Since when did the No.2 lie on the right side? His job is to change the odd mag and barrel.

 

Just noticed the spare barrel across the no 2's back, we used to carry ours in the spare parts wallet and drop it next to the gun in case we needed it (at least until they withdrew the spare barrels). If the no 2 was doing the mag changes or spotting he would not be using his rifle, quite often I did the mag changes myself though as it was easy to do in the shoulder with the right hand. The no 2 could then use his rifle or be refilling my mags.


I'm sorry but why was the No.2 issued with a rifle in that case? My grandfather was a Bren gunner from June 1944 until mid 1946 and noted his No.2 as being an excellent shot. Ergo, he used his rifle. And yes, the spare barrel bag was issued but a number of contemporary sources show and depict it being carried through the pack.

Jesus, people here are bloody hard to please.

 

Eh? Since when did the No.2 lie on the right side? His job is to change the odd mag and barrel.

So he does not spot for the #1?? He may well of been on the left as i said correct me if i was wrong, it is top of head as a don't have time or know where I put my ww2 training book. Although I should get my bren gun out before the end of summer to give it a clean and oil.