Although not strictly WWII please bear with me. My father served in the 1st Bn, The Buffs in the early 1950s. He's interested in acquiring a Bren LMG similar to the one he used in Kenya, a Mark III which first appeared in 1944. Scanning dealers' lists online this morning and browsing trade stands at the War and Peace Show yesterday it seems there are few of these on the market. For the earlier Mark I and Mark II LMGs there's absolutely no problem. Some even come complete with wooden transport boxes, spare magazines, cleaning kits, and so on, at very reasonable prices too. Is this scarcity just down to the fact that there were fewer of the Mark III produced? Also what would be a fair market price for a Mark III in good/excellent condition? Gary Canterbury, Kent
Can't answer you on price or numbers without doing a lot of research which you could do yourself. Technical info: http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/bren.htm http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg10-e.htm I think though that a relative shortage may be due to the fact that they remained in service, were converted to 7.62 mm and then most were probably sent for scrap, although I would not be surprised to learn that some are still tucked away in a depot somewhere as emergency war reserve stock.
Originally posted by angie999@Jul 24 2005, 09:51 PM Can't answer you on price or numbers without doing a lot of research which you could do yourself. Technical info: http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/bren.htm http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg10-e.htm I think though that a relative shortage may be due to the fact that they remained in service, were converted to 7.62 mm and then most were probably sent for scrap, although I would not be surprised to learn that some are still tucked away in a depot somewhere as emergency war reserve stock. [post=36820]Quoted post[/post] My father was a Bren gunner in North Africa. An interesting piece on the Bren gun from the diggers history below: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/allied_ww2.htm Geoff
Originally posted by angie999@Jul 24 2005, 11:51 AM Can't answer you on price or numbers without doing a lot of research which you could do yourself. Technical info: http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/bren.htm http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg10-e.htm I think though that a relative shortage may be due to the fact that they remained in service, were converted to 7.62 mm and then most were probably sent for scrap, although I would not be surprised to learn that some are still tucked away in a depot somewhere as emergency war reserve stock. [post=36820]Quoted post[/post] i was trained on the 7.62 lmg. I was made the gunner as I was big enough to carry it!!!
Thanks for your replies Angie, Geoff and Morse1001, much appreciated. I should add that I'm certainly not shy of doing my own research on this, just one strand of which is to ask a knowledgable group of historians with an interest in WWII weaponry who may well have these facts and figures at their fingertips. I guess it's possible that Ian Skennerton's .303 Bren Light Machine Gun will have the production statistics and perhaps some indication as to why the MkIII is comparatively rare. I think you're right, Angie, the extended service life of this weapon has probably contributed to its scarcity. Thanks again, guys. Gary PS. Great website/forum by the way, another indispensable resource and ideal partner to the GWF.
The Bren...carried it across France Belgium and Holland, Great gun, for me fires a pattern of five with one in the middle, Fine for Sniper hunting in the cornfields, took one through German lines at night near Vire, and again miles inside enemy lines on the Maas river line in Hollanf.reliable weapon. Not the fastest but accurate. Sapper
Originally posted by Gary Samson@Jul 24 2005, 11:22 AM He's interested in acquiring a Bren LMG similar to the one he used in Kenya, a Mark III which first appeared in 1944. Scanning dealers' lists online this morning and browsing trade stands at the War and Peace Show yesterday it seems there are few of these on the market. For the earlier Mark I and Mark II LMGs there's absolutely no problem.. Is this scarcity just down to the fact that there were fewer of the Mark III produced?[post=36818]Quoted post[/post] Gary. Yes, the Mk.III is pretty scarce (and expensive when you can find it). It didn't actually replace the Mk.II which continued in service up through the changes in calibre, but was actually more of a "specialist" weapon being designed mainly with airborne forces in mind. For a start , it was shorter barrelled and lighter than the others, making it ideal for airborne use. I think there were far fewer Mk.IIIs made than the ubiquitous Mk.II (the manufacture of which continued after that of the Mk.III ceased). Mk.I's are also pretty scarce (most that find their way onto the market these days are the Mk.I(m) made in Canada by Inglis after the majority were lost in France during the evacuation). I've been after a decent 1939/40 dated Mk.I now for several years with no joy so have had to content myself with a 1941 Mk.I(m) "Bren Inglis". Dave. (PS. last time I saw a Mk.III was about 7 or 8 years ago, and, IIRC, the asking price (then) was around the £500 mark - that's when you could get a MP44 for less than £300!!!) Dave.
Originally posted by sapper@Jul 25 2005, 06:23 AM The Bren...carried it across France Belgium and Holland, Great gun, for me fires a pattern of five with one in the middle, Fine for Sniper hunting in the cornfields, took one through German lines at night near Vire, and again miles inside enemy lines on the Maas river line in Hollanf.reliable weapon. Not the fastest but accurate. Sapper [post=36841]Quoted post[/post] You would probably concur with this on the Australian Diggers website. The introduction of the Bren meant that tactics could change. It was now possible to have light, fast moving automatic fire moving just as fast as the men themselves could. With the Bren's predecessor, the LEWIS, this could not be done as the weight and dimensions of the Lewis meant it was not possible to carry forward an LMG in an attack at speed. Click to enlarge The Bren was noted for its accuracy and a good gunner could chop a tree down with it. 1942-12-28. Papua. By experience allied troops have learned to take no chances with enemy tree top snipers. Every tree top that could house snipers was sprayed with hundreds of rounds from automatic weapons. One Bren gunner varied the treatment when he sighted a sniper. Using this extremely accurate Australian-made weapon he fired several bursts at the top of a coconut tree concentrating his fire at a spot six feet from the top. The weight of the sniper caused the tree top to break and he was killed when he hit the ground 60 feet below. This photo shows sniper and the top portion of the tree lying on the ground. At the top of the sniper's outstretched right hand is his broken rifle. (negative by G. Silk). The Bren gun was used in many roles from light support in the Infantry section to a Medium MG role when used with the sustained fire tripod that was issued with every gun. It was also used largely in the Anti-Aircraft role and special items of equipment were issued with it for this purpose such as 100-round drum magazines and tripod extension legs. Photo courtesy of DiggerHistory. View attachment 903
Originally posted by spidge+Jul 25 2005, 10:21 AM-->(spidge @ Jul 25 2005, 10:21 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-sapper@Jul 25 2005, 06:23 AM The Bren...carried it across France Belgium and Holland, Great gun, for me fires a pattern of five with one in the middle, Fine for Sniper hunting in the cornfields, took one through German lines at night near Vire, and again miles inside enemy lines on the Maas river line in Hollanf.reliable weapon. Not the fastest but accurate. Sapper [post=36841]Quoted post[/post] You would probably concur with this on the Australian Diggers website. The introduction of the Bren meant that tactics could change. It was now possible to have light, fast moving automatic fire moving just as fast as the men themselves could. With the Bren's predecessor, the LEWIS, this could not be done as the weight and dimensions of the Lewis meant it was not possible to carry forward an LMG in an attack at speed. Click to enlarge The Bren was noted for its accuracy and a good gunner could chop a tree down with it. 1942-12-28. Papua. By experience allied troops have learned to take no chances with enemy tree top snipers. Every tree top that could house snipers was sprayed with hundreds of rounds from automatic weapons. One Bren gunner varied the treatment when he sighted a sniper. Using this extremely accurate Australian-made weapon he fired several bursts at the top of a coconut tree concentrating his fire at a spot six feet from the top. The weight of the sniper caused the tree top to break and he was killed when he hit the ground 60 feet below. This photo shows sniper and the top portion of the tree lying on the ground. At the top of the sniper's outstretched right hand is his broken rifle. (negative by G. Silk). The Bren gun was used in many roles from light support in the Infantry section to a Medium MG role when used with the sustained fire tripod that was issued with every gun. It was also used largely in the Anti-Aircraft role and special items of equipment were issued with it for this purpose such as 100-round drum magazines and tripod extension legs. Photo courtesy of DiggerHistory. View attachment 903 [post=36847]Quoted post[/post] [/b] A good sight to check out some ww2 photos using the Bren! http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/bren.htm
