Hi, my Dad was a signaller attached to a carrier which was most likely part of a 6 pounder platoon in the 11th Battalion DLI. Including Dad how many crew would be attached to each anti-tank carrier How many carriers would usually be included in each platoon. Any other information on crew /roles? Your help is very much appreciated
According to the Trux pages on this site, the organization of an anti-tank platoon in an infantry battalion in Northwest Europe was as follows: Anti tank platoon Headquarters Carrier Universal Captain, driver mechanic Motorcycle 1 Subaltern Motorcycle 2 captains orderly 15cwt truck GS 1 platoon serjeant, storeman, batman driver. Carries stores and 6pdr ammunition 15cwt truck GS 2 vehicle mechanic, fitter REME, driver batman Carries fitters stores and 6pdr ammunition Section 1 Detachment 1 Loyd carrier 1 serjeant, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 2 corporal, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Detachment 2 Loyd carrier 3 corporal, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 4 gun number, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Section 2 Detachment 1 Loyd carrier 1 serjeant, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 2 corporal, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Detachment 2 Loyd carrier 3 corporal, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 4 gun number, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Section 3 Detachment 1 Loyd carrier 1 serjeant, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 2 corporal, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Detachment 2 Loyd carrier 3 corporal, 3 X gun numbers, driver mechanic Carries 24 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in 4 boxes Carries 2” mortar Tows 6pdr Anti tank gun Loyd carrier 4 gun number, driver mechanic Carries 30 rounds of 6pdr ammunition in boxes plus gun shields Carries Bren gun and No2 cooker Motorcycle orderly Officers were armed with pistols, motorcycle orderlies and batmen were armed with Sten guns and others with rifles.
Battalion signallers were officially members of HQ Company, but in the field most of them they were dispersed on attachment to the various companies. I have not seen anything which would tell me about the exact numbers and roles of signallers attached to the Anti Tank Platoon. Organization of infantry battalion signals was: Signals platoon The signals platoon was responsible for communication from battalion headquarters to companies. Communications from brigade to infantry battalion was provided by Royal Signals. Communications within companies was provided by company personnel. Headquarters Motorcycle signal serjeant 15cwt truck GS Subaltern, batman driver, Carries a PIAT Wireless section 15cwt truck GS corporal signaller, 3 X signaller, driver IC 15 X signallers do not have a permanent place on unit transport and normally march. Line section Motorcycle signaller orderly Motorcycle signaller orderly Motorcycle signaller orderly 5cwt car 4 X 4 (jeep) signaller orderly acting as driver IC Tows 10cwt trailer 15cwt truck 4 X 4 personnel 2 X corporal signaller, 2 X signaller, storeman, driver IC There were also three signaller orderlies on bicycles Orderlies were messengers. They performed a similar task to despatch riders but only within the battalion. Despatch rider was a Royal Signals trade and thus paid more. The seven signaller orderlies used four motor cycles and three bicycles. Bicycles were for use in the headquarters area and were carried on a 15cwt for longer moves. Bicycle riders carried a rifle. Motor cycle orderlies carried Sten guns. The signals serjeant also had a bicycle and was armed with a Sten gun. The 15cwt 4 X 4 Armoured was a White Scout car carrying wireless sets. It would normally be at Battalion Headquarters and be used by the Signal Officer and working as the battalion signals office. This vehicle was driven by a driver IC. The signallers were not concentrated at headquarters but dispersed to companies as well. Each telephone link from battalion headquarters to the six company headquarters was manned at both ends by signallers from the signals platoon. Signallers at the company end of the line were semi permanently attached to the company. Linesmen from headquarters were responsible for mending breaks in the line. These were fairly frequent since they were not only exposed to damage from shell and mortar fire but unless the line was carefully placed tracked vehicles would carry them away.
Thank you TTH for your comprehensive replies. These two replies have led me to the following assumption. If we agree that Battalion signallers were officially members of HQ Company, but in the field most were dispersed on attachment to the various companies; would Dads attachment to a Carrier Anti Tank Platoon mean that he was attached to the Headquarters carrier as one of the 4 men crew. Photography’s I have of Dad with his carrier include him and 2 others which could have been 3 of the 4 man crew. The fourth being the C.O. Would you and others agree with this or do others know better Thx again
Was he definitely with the Anti-tank Platoon, or was there a chance he might have been with the Carrier Platoon? I ask because I've done a lot of digging into Inf Bn signals and there was not normally a No.18 set and signaller allocated to the Atk Pl, while there was to the Carrier Pl. In the Carrier Pl the HQ carrier did have a three-man crew, plus a signaller to make four. This is based on the documentation and organisation for the 1943-45 period. Gary
Thanks Gary. That’s the problem I don’t know! He like other WW2 soldiers talked little of his war time duties, hence my query. Dad was definitely a signaller and was part of a carrier platoon - but the reference to anti-tank was based my knowledge of what carriers pulled and on an old conversation with Dad talking about how the 6 pounders were ineffective against the Tigers armour. If I recall the conversation was made whilst I was very young making my Airfix tank model. If we agree that Dad was the 4th man in the HQ carrier platoon (the signaller) - what was the function of the that carrier? With reference to the thread above I counted 12 carriers and all of these were antitank carriers and were controlled by the HQ carrier (13 in total). - did that HQ carrier control other Carrier platoons. If so how many carrier platoons and now many carriers in each platoon? Sorry for my ignorance and all the questions but I hope that you can give me some clarity on Dads role and how his carrier related to the wider carrier platoon(s) Thanks for your help. Regards Peter
No worries. All my own research on this area (which largely overlaps with the Trux info posted above) is on my own site, in my signature area below. A 1943-45 British Infantry Battalion had 38 carriers in total. The Carrier Pl had 13, one for the Pl commander and then four Sections, each of three. These were all Universal carriers. The Anti-tank Pl also had 13 carriers, one for the commander and then six pairs, each serving one 6-pdr gun. In the Atk Pl the commander had a Universal carrier and the other 12 were Loyd carriers. The Loyd was the usual tower for the 6-pdr, rather than the Universal. Signallers from the Signal Pl were attached out to various elements of the Battalion to operate the No.18 set. The 1943 Inf Bn had ten of these sets, and the Atk Pl was not normally allocated one. This was largely because the Atk Pl fought more dispersed and even if the commander had one there was no wireless communication between him and the guns. The Carrier Pl did have a No.18 set and associated signaller. I'd be more inclined to place your Dad in the carrier of the commander of the Carrier Pl. The CO of the Carrier Pl just commanded the carriers in this Platoon, not all the carriers in the Battalion. These were allocated out one to Bn HQ and each Rifle Coy HQ, then seven in the Mortar Pl, plus the 13 each in the Carrier and Atk Pls. Gary
I have been following this thread but I do not work at the speed of some contributors. One point I can make concerns the carriers in the anti tank platoon. Normally this would be a Loyd but until the Mulberry Harbour was operational units used the ordinary Universal with a special drawbar. Vehicles were landed dryshod as far as possible but some still had to wade ashore and the Loyd could not really be waterproofed. Mike
Peter asked elsewhere about Motor Transport Ships and LSTs. Jig sector of Gold Beach was used for unloading Motor Transport Ships and LSTs (Landing Ship Tank). All vehicles landing on Gold would use this sector. LSTs did not normally sail from the Thames but from loading hards around the Solent area. Motor Transport Ships were unloaded some distance from the shore using a variety of craft organised by the Ferry Service. On Jig and Item Sectors the Ferry Service had fifty five LCT, thirty LCM and eight Rhino for discharging Motor Transport ships. Motor Transport Ships were standard Liberty ships or very similar British types. The holds were slightly modified to accomodate vehicles. Off the beaches vehicles were lifted from the holds and lowered onto the ferry craft using the ships derricks operated by troops from Port Operating units of the Royal Engineers. Libert Ship. Mike.
Hi Gary - This post is very informative and much appreciated and with all of the other recent posts I’ve now got a good understanding of Dads signaller role. Thank you for closure on this matter. Unless anyone has anything further to add to this thread then I’ll use these responses to complete the post Iceland section of my Dads war history. My family and I are will truly grateful.
Hi Mike again very helpful. There is a thread on the sailings including LCTs from London to Normandy in my thread entitled Normandy transport Landings for the 11th DLI. As a newbie to the Forum I’m unsure how to link the two posts. You should hopefully find that the tread and agree that it provides more clarity on the Army shipping from London heading to the Normandy.
