Both Sides of the Warsaw Ghetto

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by Drusus Nero, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. Drusus Nero

    Drusus Nero Banned

    I also thought of something else.

    Even if the Moscow radio broadcasts and the leaflets were 'encouraging rhetoric", that is certainly not how the Polish Army and people perceived it.

    How the Russians intended it to be seen is a moot point.

    The Poles thought its was real, and they acted accordingly.

    Sorry, did not think of that one until a couple of hours ago.

    I must say, Steeler, it's nice to see someone like yourself who can debate without it turning into a slanging match.
    I have given you a rep point for your great word and thoughts.

    (just to make up for the one I took off you for David Glantz.... :rolleyes:
  2. Drusus Nero

    Drusus Nero Banned

    So, I suppose, in the absense of any more to the contrary, lets make some final comments.

    Polish diplomats, and Senior Officers, had nobody to blame but themselves, and playing off one great power against the other got them nothing and nowhere..

    Facts are though, after their retreat, the Red Army sat still, like it or not. And their supreme commnader wasn't going to move them until Poland had won it's own battles. He also knew they could not.

    So, as Bellamy states...(Absolute War, Page 619)

    "There seems little doubt that Stalin decided it was not in his - or Russia's - best interest to help the Warsaw rebels. He was not responsible for the outbreak of the revolt, which had been sanctioned in London by the exiled government. Stalin stopped talking to them in 1943, apart from his chilly reception for Mikolajczjk.
    He had no intention of giving substantial help to the rebels, brave as they were. A victory for the AK (home Army) would be very inconvenient for his plans for pro-Soviet communist Poland. He therefore let the Germans do his work for him. The Red Army would move when it was ready."

    To this I can only add....last line should have been..."The Red Army would move when Stalin was ready."

    And that about wraps it up.

    I thank all concerned for what has been a stumlating debate. With our combined actions, we have, unequivocally, proven that Red Army forces did all they could, at first, and then were held in place chiefly due to the Polish Prime Minister and his deputy trying to play off one of the 'Big Three' against the other two.

    We have also shown that criticisms leveled by the Poles at Stalin were unfounded, but also, that once Stalin made his mind up, the Red Army DID sit still, regardless of whether it could move or not.

    And here is where Glantz's 'house training' comes in.

    The Soviet capacity for renewal of their offensive was not, and never had been, as impossible as he claims. I believe we have uncovered an example of Glantzs work that was fed to him with no awkward questions asked on his part.
    And how much more of the work of David Glantz is founded on the same basis?

    We must leave that for another time.

    Meanwhile...."These proceedings are at an end"

    :plflag[1]: :poppy: :poppy: :poppy: :goodnight:

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