"Blackpool" and the 111th Indian Infantry Brigade

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by Hebridean Chindit, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    God bless them, one and all...

    As we've discussed, they are the "few", they are now trying their very best to make sure their "forgotten" conflict is remembered...

    Up to us to make sure the baton is securely handed on and never forgotten... :poppy:
     
  2. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Busy on a deep trawl...

    Steve mentioned the Statesman Press in Calcutta so I thought I'd post this picture I found of the offices on the CBI site...

    [​IMG]

    Not quite Fleet Street... ;)
     
  3. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Hi Ken, Im interested in anything relating to the 1st Kings, as Private Pierce was one of my Widnes casualties

    Private ROBERT PIERCE
    3719168, 1st Bn., The King's Regiment (Liverpool)
    who died age 20, on 25 May 1944
    Remembered with honour RANGOON MEMORIAL
     
  4. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Hi Phil, that's still an area I've yet to delve deep into - I certainly have both the 111th and 77th diaries if there is anything specific you would need from them - Steve's advised me to get their diaries next time I'm up at Kew as I (shamefacedly) persistently mix up my Kings (1st KL and 2nd KORR) and there are another bunch of MIA's I will probably pick up then too - the Cameronian ones gave me some good info; even found my dad in the mix...

    I presume from the date he was lost on the fall of "Blackpool"...?

    What do you know or need...? Have net and digging implements, can trawl and plough... ;)
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Gents,

    Ken, I have given Phil Pte. Pierce's MIA details from WO361/443. So I it will be the battalion War diary which might hold additional information on this soldier.

    With a recent run on 1st Kings families making contact and other interest in the battalion I am thinking of including a section on these men in either my Chindit website or creating one especially for them.

    All three os us probably need to collate what documents we already possess to avoid unnecessary duplication at Kew.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  6. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Can't argue that, Steve... a pool of the relevant research info is perfectly logical...

    ps slightly shellshocked by the walk into the minefield that is the Tony Redding book you loaned me - you forgot to mention his dad was at "Blackpool" - slightly more info than you intimated, too... o_O - might have to pur-chase my own copy or it could be years before you see this one again... :D

    Just noticed your link on one of the King's site... ;)
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Can't argue that, Steve... a pool of the relevant research info is perfectly logical...

    ps slightly shellshocked by the walk into the minefield that is the Tony Redding book you loaned me - you forgot to mention his dad was at "Blackpool" - slightly more info than you intimated, too... o_O - might have to pur-chase my own copy or it could be years before you see this one again... :D

    Just noticed your link on one of the King's site... ;)

    Glad its more than you expected and not less Ken.:D
    As I told you I got bogged down with it myself, I'm just a simple Longcloth boy after all. 'Bloody gliders and flying in and out, call yourself a Chindit, honestly'.:lol:
     
  8. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Cheaper on the shoe leather... :D

    Mind you, Dad did make a comment in his notes about using cardboard from drops to block the holes in his boots and then ending up with odd-sized boots after another drop... o_O
     
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Cheaper on the shoe leather... :D

    Mind you, Dad did make a comment in his notes about using cardboard from drops to block the holes in his boots and then ending up with odd-sized boots after another drop... o_O

    Gotta blame rear base QM Sergeant for that blunder. Was it true that all Chindit 2 men had a replacement kit sitting in stores in case they needed a change of equipment once in theatre. I'm sure I read this somewhere.
     
  10. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Not found that mentioned - still trawling the diaries though so probably plenty of surprises yet...
     
  11. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Hi Phil, that's still an area I've yet to delve deep into - I certainly have both the 111th and 77th diaries if there is anything specific you would need from them - Steve's advised me to get their diaries next time I'm up at Kew as I (shamefacedly) persistently mix up my Kings (1st KL and 2nd KORR) and there are another bunch of MIA's I will probably pick up then too - the Cameronian ones gave me some good info; even found my dad in the mix...

    I presume from the date he was lost on the fall of "Blackpool"...?

    What do you know or need...? Have net and digging implements, can trawl and plough... ;)

    Hi Ken, apart from the 77th Inf Brigade Diary, and the details Steve has provided me from the missing persons file I dont have a great deal. I'm interested in his time with the 1st Kings from their transfer from 77th Inf Brigade.

    Phil
     
  12. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Give me some time to check what I can find in both 77th and 111th, Phil, as there might be something (crossover stuff) there - it is part of what I'm looking at anyway, just tipaftertail but nothing new for me - I'm waiting for a replacement scanner and a newer OCR as I have stacks to scan in at present so until delivery I have free-time this week (albeit being on-call until Friday AM)...

    Me... free time...? who am I kidding... ;)

    I'll start the trawl...:Nessie:
     
  13. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Phil, not sure if you are the same Phil that Steve e'd about with some more specifics - if so, you know this already - I'm missing the 111th diary post June (DOH!) but will compile the info for you up until that point and post - if you need any relevant specifics or the relevant pages give me a shout post that point...

    I got a bit scan-happy today post a particularily stressfull week and I'm endeavouring trying to recapture some "private-life" from my employers - normal service to be resumed shortly... ;)
     
  14. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    There is only one Phil!!:D
     
  15. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Afternoon Ken, it is indeed the same Phil. No rush on my part but I look fwd to seeing what you can find.

    Phil

    Phil, not sure if you are the same Phil that Steve e'd about with some more specifics - if so, you know this already - I'm missing the 111th diary post June (DOH!) but will compile the info for you up until that point and post - if you need any relevant specifics or the relevant pages give me a shout post that point...

    I got a bit scan-happy today post a particularily stressfull week and I'm endeavouring trying to recapture some "private-life" from my employers - normal service to be resumed shortly... ;)
     
  16. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    I've got plenty of Rush on my iPod... :D

    Do you have family connections to your research, Phil...?
     
  17. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Some reference material...

    I’ve been working through my notes and I thought I'd post a list of officers and total numbers of 1st Cameronians from the diary returns from 1st January 1944 through to the end of July 1944; the returns were produced on a weekly basis…
    It should be noted that copies of the returns are somewhat frustrating as certain pages appear to have been typed up with multiple carbons that had been terminally over-used, so I have tried to be as careful as possible with the transcription…
    Listed by rank and in alphabetical order; names in standard typeface are constants on the returns from the start; all February 1944 returns are missing...

    909 personnel (834 from 5/3) comprising…
    1 Warrant Officer, Class I.
    6+1 (1st Line) Warrant Officer, Class II.
    5+2 (1st line) Squadron or Company Quartermaster Serjeants or Colour Serjeants, and all IOR’s above Daffadar or Havildar.
    30+5 (1st line) Serjeants, Daffadars, Havildars.
    69+7 (1st line) Corporals, L/Daffadars, Naiks.
    642+135 (1st line – reduced to 60 5/3) Troopers, Privates, Guardsmen, Fusillers, Sowars, Sepoys, Etc.
    6 Pipers
    An additional listing of 47 surplus personnel, reducing to 14 9/1,

    Stanley Rothney (Saddler for 90 Column) noted that they were disappointed that the Pipers’ were not allowed to go in, and that they ended up being “pushers” on the supply drops…

    Others listed as attached on the 1st January returns were as follows…
    20 R.E. (28 from 9/1 – not listed on 12/3)
    8 B.I.C. (2 from 12/5)
    9 RAMC.
    5 R.A.F. (6 from 9/1)
    22 Burif’s.
    5 ACC.
    2 REME.
    10 RCS (first listed 9/1)

    The 834 personnel number remained constant but there was a listing of deficiencies with a sub-note “NB. No reinforcement required” which appeared from 14/5 – personnel remaining, numbers deficient and date as follows…

    820 - 14 – 14/5
    794 - 40 – 21/5
    725 - 109 – 28/5
    712 - 122 – 4/6
    713 - 121 – 11/6
    589 - 245 – 18/6
    598 - 236 – 25/6
    559 - 275 - 23/7

    Personnel listed on the returns…

    Major (temp. Lt. Col.)
    Gillespie N M (transferred to GHQ 16/3)

    Captain (temp Lt. Col. from 6/4)
    Henning William M (commander 90 Column) (listed as temp. Major until 6/4).

    Captain's (temp. Major's)
    Brennan B J ("Tim" or "Breezy") (Commander 26 Column)
    Greive J A (listed wounded 14/5, not on 28/5 return; from hosp. 12/6)

    Captain
    Boyle P R (listed wounded 15/5, not on 28/5 return).

    Lieutenant's (temp. Captain's)
    Boden J L (originally a temp Capt.; listed as Lt. from w/e 7/5; Capt. again 21/5; listed wounded 24/5; listed on returns 30/7)
    Chalmers D L (orig listed as Lt.; first listed as Capt. 19/3, hospital 17/5)
    Clark J (to hosp. 26/4, returned 15/5)
    Heddle A M (to hosp. 17/5)
    MacLean N J C
    McFadden J R
    Orchard K H (to hosp. 10/5)
    Scott J M H
    Simpson A D (originally listed as Lt.; first listed as Capt. from w/e 7/5 but recorded died of wounds 19/4 on returns for 14/5).

    Lieutenant's
    Barbour T J (transferred to GHQ 12/1)
    Beazley R A C (listed missing w/e 7/5)
    Chambers T B (joined w/e 26/3; listed wounded 24/5)
    Chapman J C (to hosp. 28/12/43, on list 12/3; missing believed killed 24/5)
    Flatt P N (from hosp. 23/12/43, to hosp. 27/12/43, from hosp. 10/1).
    Grant R H B
    Haynes D S (listed evacuated 4/5, quitted w/e 26/3)
    Hirst A
    Leck J (listed wounded 24/5, not on 28/5 return)
    Lovett R C (listed until 21/5, then as not with unit/attached 111 Brigade).
    McGloin F P
    McKerrell D L (also spelt McKerrall)
    Meldrum R H
    Ross R G W (to hosp. 1/6)
    Serjeant J (KIA 24/5)
    Stewart J
    Straight Geoffrey A D
    Ward D (to hosp. 12/5)
    Wilson L A (to hosp. 14/4).

    Lieutenant (QM)
    McLean A

    Other officers...
    Captain-Chaplain's
    Padre Hawthorn T
    Reverend Mackay Donald G M
    Captain's (RAMC)
    Macfie R G A
    Taylor T A (listed as “Chaplain on 26/3 returns?)
    Lieutenant (temp Capt.)(Burif)
    Downs J (originally listed as Lt.)
    Lieutenant (Burif)
    Gemmell (no initial) (crossed off returns 30/7).
    Lieutenant (BIC)
    Stiles J
    Lieutenant (RE)
    Hayes S (not listed after 1/1)
    Titford A
    Lieutenant (BR)
    Adye S(listed from 9/1)
    Peters J (not listed after 1/1)
    Flight Lieutenant's (RAF)
    Murray J
    McDonald J

    Two officers were listed throughout but noted as not with unit/attached 111 Brigade; these were…
    Captain (temp, Major) R A Cole-Hamilton.
    Lieutenant A Hirst

    This has been transcribed from the diaries held at National Archives, Kew – E&OE
     
  18. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review...

    Some further reference material...

    2nd Battalion Kings Own Royal Regiment, 41 & 46 Columns…
    Officers on strength, May 1944.

    Lieutenant Colonel:
    Thompson, A W

    Majors:
    Heap
    Larpent
    Rees
    Robinson
    Royle

    Captains:
    Arnold (KIA 13/5)
    Brown
    Busby
    Edwards
    Kershaw
    Leach.
    Openshaw
    Pike
    Tucker
    Winmill (KIA 14/5)

    Lieutenants:
    Coleman
    Dodd
    Edwards, G H (noted wounded 15/5; presumed withdrawn)
    Evans
    Fisher
    Green
    Harrison
    Hart
    Home
    Icke
    Jones, C R A (KIA 15/5) (not on primary list)
    Jordan
    Leyland
    Littlewood
    Milnes
    Morris
    Parry
    Shaw
    Smith
    Stock

    Attached:
    RAMC:
    Brown
    Gibb
    Oliver, A G G (not on primary list in book)
    RE:
    Betts
    Oliver
    Burif’s (Burma Rifles):
    Hobbins.
    Lader
    Saw
    RAF:
    Rhodes
    Robinson.
    Chaplain
    Miller, William H

    This list is from Chaplain Millers book but noted within as being from the Battalion War Diaries…
     
  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Great work HC keep it coming.:)
     
  20. findley

    findley Junior Member

    Have any of you come across the name Harry Newton in your studies. I have just recently learned he was a Chindit and have sent for his military records from Glasgow. He is my Grandfather and spoke very little about his military career. All I know (hope someone might be able to fill in some blanks) he was a volunteer into the territorials, he was a gunner and has been remembered to have been at quite a few of the major city blitzes shooting down planes. He then sailed great distance stopping at a few ports (Africa) until he reached Burma but did not fight along the way. He is from Yorkshire, Barnsley area. He was discharged when he returned from Burma Late 1944 thin with malaria and a badly broken arm. Wish I could add more but sadly I have nothing.

    Would be grateful for any tips on what regiment he might have been in and how Burma came about.
    Thank you
    Chrisa
     

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