William Albert Bibby, Lancashire Fusiliers. WW1

I hope you don't mind me asking Roy..my own grandfather was a bit of a lad, and he apparently served at Ypres, Somme and Gallipoli. To survive 3 major situations I find incredible, he did come home gasping for breath with being gassed somewhere but I have often wondered how on earth he survived 3 major battles, can you shed any light on him re this. His name was William Albert Bibby, Lancashire Fusiliers. Was he a fighting soldier or was he a cook or runner or something that protected him from being killed. If you can shed any light on it I would deeply appreciate it as I am rubbish on the internet and it takes me all my time to find anything. I only know someone has answered me on this site, because it comes up on my email and I can go straight to it, otherwise I wouldn't be able to find anything. Showing my age. best wishes

 

Confirm what Owen has said, try the Great war Forum, it has plenty of helpful folks on it.

 

Thank you for the link. just been on it, I cant make out how to do anything and everything I go on you have to pay. But thanks anyway

 

The Great War Forum doesn't need a subscription.
The folk on there are really helpful.

Do you have Ancestry membership?
If not, you can access it for free at your local library, check and book a computer.
Was your William Albert Bibby born 1898 in Chorlton, died 1951, same town?
(That's easily found on Family Search (free, just set up an account).

The point with Ancestry is that you can access not just Birth, Marriage and Death but also WW1 records, such as Medal Index Cards, for your chap in the Lancashire Fusiliers. For him to be at Gallipoli, it's likely he was 1st battalion, which was awarded "6 VC's before breakfast" storming ashore into withering fire.
As a minimum, he'd therefore have the 1915 Star as well as the British War and Victory medals.
It would give his rank and Service Number. If extraordinarily lucky, you might even find some surviving Service Record for him. If you do find his Attestation Form, you'll see his signature, a tangible connection...

What about brothers? There were 5 Bibby's killed in the Lancashire Fusiliers alone....

 

Hello and thank you very much for your replies. Kevin, my grandfather was from rishton Lancashire originally and lived in bburn most of his life I think. I am his granddaughter by way of his daughter, my mother, who died just over a year ago. When she was a little girl he used to tell her stories of meeting the different nationalities of allied forces, he taught her the Hakka (not sure how to spell the new Zealand hakka) and said a n.z. man taught it to him. I don't know his birth exactly but he was in the 1st world war, and served at Ypres, Somme and Galipoli. I often wonder how he survived three major battles! His wife said to my mother that he went away a strapping young man and returned with the chest and physical body of an old man. He suffered from emphasymia (hope I have spelled it ok) the rest of his life. I was 2 when he died which was 1954, so he lasted another 36yrs after the war finished. I have tried to go on these web sites but I get confused and all over the place and have to give up. I am 67 and have bleeds at the back of my eyes, so cant come on the internet/p.c for long so again I don't get anywhere. Is it possible for me to send to one place to see if my grandad was awarded medals? And if he was, is there a way to be able to ask for copies of his medals? And the paperwork that went with them? Thank you again.jan1

 

Do you have younger family members who might be interested enough to help?

As your grandfather served in WW1 then it fits better with the Great War Forum, but Mods here may stretch the point in view of your medical issues.
Preferably they could start a new Thread (in pre War Forum?) and copy across the relevant parts of posts from here.
William Albert Bibby, Lancashire Fusiliers.
Alternatively, we could do this off Forum in Private Messages, but that would be another thing for you to cope with.
Williams thread would have to be at the discretion of the Mods here to decide, but they are pretty reasonable people and quite understanding.... ?

UPDATE: There is a Peter Bibby commemorated on the side panel of the Rishton Conservative Club War Memorial, but NOT on the Rishton Cenotaph... could that be a great uncle? There is no Peter Bibby on CWGC but two P Bibby's - no Additional Family Information, one South Lancs and one East Lancs

 

Thanks kevin if anyone can help would be grateful. Don't know who mods are. Yes it could be a great uncle Peter Bibby. He lived at spring st. rishton and I assume that most families at that time had more than one child so he could have had brothers and sisters even. I do know that he had a child with a lady from Rishton who he had half of his army pay sent to although he was not married to her, he was in fact married to my grandma Elizabeth Driver. But it is feesable that Peter from Rishton was a family member of William albert my grandad. How wonderful to think he was one of them that got the V.C. I think its amazing that he survived 3 major battles , I know I have said it before, but I wonder what he did? was he a cook or in a position that he would have been more protected? I don't know just guessing maybe and it could be the answer as to why he survived the 3. best regards jan1

 

Mods (Owen) Thanks for tolerance and creating this thread for jan1.

I have found ANOTHER Rishton Bibby
BIBBY, ARTHUR. Private. Service Number 29015. Died 26/03/1918. Aged 32
11th Bn. East Lancashire Regiment.
Husband of Edith Bibby, of 1, Danver St., Rishton, Blackburn.
Commemorated at the Arras Memorial Bay 6.
Now only you can decide what you do next.

We don't have the specialist knowledge that is readily available on the Great War Forum, but several here also are members who might be willing to raise this for you on the GWF and report back here if that's easiest for you.

I would also recommend you think about a Family Tree, and ask if any relative has already done so.
There is a Family Tree on Ancestry which includes your William. (Thanks to another Pal here, Tricky Dicky, lurking in the shadows!)
William Albert Bibby born. 9 May 1886 Rishton, died. 15 Dec 1952 Blackburn. There is a Walter Albert Bibby, born 1886, was in 1st/4th Battalion East Lancs No 2736, then transferred to 9th Bn East Lancs No 35040. Died in Blackburn 1952 (vol 10b)

Often men changed from one Battalion to another due to being wounded, recovered but posted to another battalion when deemed fit again. That might explain his changed Service Number in one Battalion, then renumbered when posted elsewhere.

Where did you get the information about "Lancashire Fusiliers", as it doesn't seem as if this Willam was in that unit, but the East Lancashires....... ??

 

Hi Kevin,
Noted in your post #10 above, Walter Albert Bibby, service no 2736 transferred and given service no 35040
FMP have William Albert Bibby also service no 2736 ? year 1914. and second service no 35040 ?
If it's the correct chap his Medal Index Card can be downloaded via this link.

Medal card of Bibby, William A Corps: East Lancashire Regiment Regiment No: ... | The National Archives

regards........Graham.

 

Hope this helps. The Regiment was E Lancs not Lanc Fusiliers served with 3rd and 4th Bn E.Lancs. Awarded 1914-15 Trio . Wheezing was due to bronchitis not due to war service. Served Egypt. Any way heres whats online;-



Kyle

 

Gents: Superb work. Thanks.
He obviously was one of the early volunteers to enlist after War had been declared, and after initial training was sent with the 4th Battalion to Egypt then to Gallipoli, before ending up on the Western Front.
As regards his bronchitis, seems rather niggardly for the Army to accept him as fit then claim it was a pre existing condition. As Jan said he went in a fit man and returned in poor health.
At least the consolation is that he did return, and had a family life.

Rather convenient both his wife and lady friend had the name Elisabeth.

 

Wel Done Kyle.

Graham.

 

Hi,

My reading of the service papers are that he joined 4th (Home Service) Battalion ELR (later redesignated 2/4th ELR) as 1/4th ELR had already departed for Egypt.

He went out to 1/4th ELR at Gallipoli 1st July 1915 as a reinforcement/replacement and was evacuated due to either wounds or disease (more likely illness) in mid November 1915. He likely ended up back in a U.K. hospital for about 6 months as there is a medical form suggesting a discharge from hospital for a weeks leave in late January 1916 and another medical discharge form showing he was finally discharged from hospital to a location (likely of 2/4th ELR) in the south of England 23rd May 1916.

He clearly served with 2/4th ELR in the south of England from late May 1916 - pending his full recovery - as there is a unit Conduct sheet entry re an offence 31st May 1916.

He was posted to 3rd Reserve Battalion in mid October pending movement to an active service unit overseas - as a result of 1916 Military Service Act Territorials could be moved to Regular or New Army Units - so he was posted to 9th (Service) Battalion ELR In Salonika In November 1916 and served there for the remainder of the war.

I've attached these brief WW1 Battn timelines from FWR (I note chronological error in 1/4th ELR timeline).

There doesn’t appear to be any evidence in the Service papers posted by Kyle that he served on the Western front at any time so couldn’t have served at Ypres or on the Somme.

Steve

1/4th Battalion Territorial Force

04.08.1914 Stationed at Blackburn as part of the East Lancashire Brigade of the East Lancashire Division and then moved to Chesham Fold Camp, Bury.
10.09.1914 Mobilised for war and embarked for Gallipoli from Southampton via Alexandria to defend the Suez Canal.
26.05.1915 Formation became the 126th Brigade of the 42nd Division.
10.05.1915 Landed at Gallipoli and the Division made three attempts to break through the Helles bridgehead and capture the village of Krithia, fighting at the Battle of Krithia Vineyard.
29.12.1915 Evacuated to Mudros due to heavy casualties from combat, disease and severe weather.
17.01.1916 Moved to Alexandria and engaged in various actions including; The Battle of Romani (4-5 August 1916)
Mar 1917 Moved to France and engaged in various actions on the Western Front including, The Third Battle of Ypres.



9th (Service) Battalion

Sept 1914 Formed at Preston as part of the Third New Army to join the 65th Brigade of the 22nd Division and then moved to Lewes, and then on to Seaford, and then on to Eastbourne.
April 1915 Moved back to Seaford and then Aldershot.
05.09.1915 Mobilised for war and then landed at Boulogne.
28.10.1915 Embarked for Salonika from Marseilles arriving 05.11.1915 and engaged in various actions against the Bulgarian Army including;
During 1916
The Battle of Horseshoe Hill, The Battle of Machukovo.
During 1917
The Battles of Doiran.
During 1918
The Battle of Doiran.
30.09.1918 Ended the war in Macedonia, N.W. of Lake Doiran

 

Thanks, Tullybrone.
I agree with your interpretation that he doesn't appear to have been on the Western Front.
However, in family stories, most don't realise that fighting went on virtually everywhere the British Empire covered - and then some! So for convenience, all soldiers seem to have accepted that somehow they must have been in France and Flanders unless with Old Comrades. As William was a miner, and if Albert Bibby was his brother and living in Rishton, that may have been where William got involved with Elizabeth Younger Milroy (born 2nd Quarter 1884 in Blackburn District) in early 1908 for her to take out a Maintenance Order just before Christmas 1908. Elizabeth Younger Milroy shows as not marrying until 1941 to a Mr Parkinson, also still in Blackburn District.

The campaign in Salonika, Greece etc was noted for the death toll being greater through disease and sickness than from combat. Not surprising then that he returned in poor health.

Have we gleaned all we can?

 

*Thank you so much, it is this one I am sure as he died when I was a baby and I was born in 1952. William Albert Bibby born. 9 May 1886 Rishton, died. 15 Dec 1952 .

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE. YOU GOT HIM..HE CAME FROM RISHTON, LIVED AT ECCLES ST BBURN, AND THEN INFIRMARY ST BLACKBURN, I REMEMBER MY MOTHER TAKING ME TO INFIRMARY ST TO SEE HER MOTHER. I HAVE COPIED ALL THE PICTURES AND THE INFO AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO BE ABLE TO GET HIS RECORDS AND A COPY OF HIS MEDALS. I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH ALL OF YOU XX BEST REGARDS AND GRATITUDE, JAN1

 

Jan

Those images I posted are his records . Unfortunately the Mod will not replace WW1 medals so it will have to be a private purchase of replacement medals ?

Kyle

 

Jan1. Thanks to the wonderful people on here, we have put together his Service Records for you.
However, he wasn't in the Lancashire Fusiliers, nor on the Western Front, so not on The Somme, Ypres or wherever.

I'm glad for you that we could help, even though it's a little out of the area of expertise of most of us.
That in turn, is due to the tolerance of our Mods and Admin, who labour in the background to ensure that this Forum excels. It's thanks to selfless people like those who have contributed to this thread, and in the background that makes life worthwhile.

We may have shattered a few family stories, but you now have facts. They don't make William any the less, in fact they possibly enhance our understanding that a man volunteered to climb out of the mines, do his bit for King and Country in lands far away, in heat dirt and suffered illness and disease. Perhaps it was simpler just to "invent" a life on the Western Front, rather than try to explain to people that the War was fought all over the World.

I hope we've helped put flesh on the man your family should admire.

As for his medals, sometimes selling them was the only way to get money when things were tight.