Berlin Flak Tower schematics

Discussion in 'Axis Units' started by Steamtrooper, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Hi all - im a new poster and look forward to my time here.

    My main reason for joining the forums is that Im a 3D Modelor and after reading 'Berlin the downfall 1945' by Beevor Im very interested in modeling the Berlin Flak towers.

    Specifically Id like to start by making the Zoo Tower but I am more than happy to work on any of the Berlin towers or in fact even the Vienna Bunkers.

    To this end I was hoping that someone may be able to point me towards some (at least fairly) accurate schematics/blueprints of any of the towers.

    Ive done quite a bit of research so far and believe the Zoo Bunker was 70mt * 70mt, basement, ground and 5 further stories and have a fair amount of photographic reference. The main problem is that the bunkers were taken down by the allies shortly after the war so photo reference is a little hard to gather. If any one knows of personal archives or technical information pertaining to any of the towers It would be most appreciated.

    I thoroughly intend on posting my progress on the site if that is appropriate and would be most gratefull.

    Thanks in advance

    Adam
    Steamtrooper.
     
  2. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    Hello and welcome, Adam.
     
  3. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

  4. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Adam,

    Lots of photographs on this search link.

    Search under bunkers on the forum and you will see quite a lot.

    berlin zoo flak tower photos - Google Search

    Not quite sure of exact sizes although I have posted a website on my hamburg thread which I think gave sizes of a lot of bunkers.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  6. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Thanks for the speedy replies people. I have most of those favourited already but the very fast response and effort is greatly appreciated.

    This site may be of use, thanks Jedburgh22 - although Im going to have to use translate a lot to get anywhere on there, english is my only language sadly.

    Again much appreciated, and keep them coming, I think from the written dimensions and some extrapolation and the refs of the top of the bunkers I may be good to go - at this stage I think Im going to block in the basics and see what crops up later.

    Would this be the place to post any pics? Or is there a better area of the forums to post up WIPS and CG art?

    Oh and thankyou for the welcome Jedburgh22 and Gage, my interests in WW2 do go well beyond this subject so I hope to be a productive if somewhat lurking presence here:D

    It occured to me to give you this link to see one of my other current interests in the subject - Thompson SMG WIP
     
  7. uksubs

    uksubs Senior Member

    Hi all - im a new poster and look forward to my time here.

    My main reason for joining the forums is that Im a 3D Modelor and after reading 'Berlin the downfall 1945' by Beevor Im very interested in modeling the Berlin Flak towers.

    Specifically Id like to start by making the Zoo Tower but I am more than happy to work on any of the Berlin towers or in fact even the Vienna Bunkers.

    To this end I was hoping that someone may be able to point me towards some (at least fairly) accurate schematics/blueprints of any of the towers.

    Ive done quite a bit of research so far and believe the Zoo Bunker was 70mt * 70mt, basement, ground and 5 further stories and have a fair amount of photographic reference. The main problem is that the bunkers were taken down by the allies shortly after the war so photo reference is a little hard to gather. If any one knows of personal archives or technical information pertaining to any of the towers It would be most appreciated.

    I thoroughly intend on posting my progress on the site if that is appropriate and would be most gratefull.

    Thanks in advance

    Adam
    Steamtrooper.
    I was lucky to go inside one of the Berlin flak tower last year B) In the game MOH airborne you play on one of the tower ;)
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Adam,
    Just a thought, but have you contacted the Royal Engineers Museum.

    It was the Royal Engineers here in Berlin that demolished the Zoo Flak Tower.

    Two veteran RE are members of our RBL Berlin Branch and they were involved in the demolition, which took several attempts to destroy the structure.

    Hopefully the RE will have had plans of the towers or made their own for demolition purposes.

    Well worth an enquiry.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

  10. MrEd

    MrEd Observer

    James S likes this.
  11. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    I was lucky to go inside one of the Berlin flak tower last year B) In the game MOH airborne you play on one of the tower ;)

    Nice - I hope to visit soon and take in a tour of the remains - I believe there are still enterable remains of the Humboldthain and Friedrichshain, I dont suppose you took pictures :D ?

    I do believe I played that MOH - I seem to remember parachuting onto a Bunker very early in the game.

    Smudger Jnr - or Tom if I may, Thanks very much for your help - that link is definately worth translating - I shall endevour to make an english version of the information if possible and may post it with the donating sites permission.

    As a matter of fact my Father was in the REME that took part in the rebuilding and also demolition of post WW2 Berlin - a big part of my interest comes directly from his memories of his time there.

    Ive taken your advice and approached the REM, although they are saying they dont do research for private parties, so either a visit or some more research and backrubbing might be required.

    Thanks MrEd - although I think Smdger Jnr just pipped you to the post, the reply is most appreciated though.
     
  12. ww2ni

    ww2ni Senior Member

    I was at the Humboldt Flak Tower in Berlin a few years ago. Amazing place.
    Best of luck with your project!!
     
  13. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Thanks ww2ni - again I dont suppose you have any family snaps that might offer insight into any details that arent immediately apparent on the refs available online? I envy you, as I believe theres an awefull lot of interesting architecture to take in in Berlin in general.

    Youve motivated me to stop gathering refs and to start blocking out the Tower - I think Im going to go with the Zoo Bunker. I needed a break from my other projects and I have to start somewhere.

    If its allowed I may gather my refs here for general viewing and also to catalogue what refs I do have and what Im eager to find. Ill link from my facebook or imageshack to minimize any issues.
     
  14. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Ok Ive made a start blocking in some measurements as best I can.

    Any help and educated guess work is appreciated. Im hopeing some of the measurements like stairwell widths and door widths are standardized - at the moment Im making a best guess from photo refs and extrapolation.

    Im unsure of where the measurements for height and width are taken from - at the moment Im working on the basis of overall ground coverage for wdith and length and to the top of the roof bunker/gun emplacements for overall height.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the help people and keep it coming if you think Ive made some blunders.
     
  15. uksubs

    uksubs Senior Member

     
  16. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Thanks uksubs - that explains the lack of fresh refs on the net.

    Added a rough top floor in to better check other dimensions.

    [​IMG]

    Ill be adding in the 128mm guns soon - roughly at first and moving into more detail later.

    C and C and input welcome.
     
  17. Jakob Kjaersgaard

    Jakob Kjaersgaard Senior Member

    Very interesting project you've started. I too visited the Zoo flakturm and went on a tour inside. Really a pity you weren't allowed to take pictures inside.

    Best of luck with the project!
     
  18. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Senior Member

    From the look of it you are going for a "G" (weapons) turm Bauart I (first project), 3 of the Berlin towers were this pattern, for which I have the following dimensons.
    Base 75 x 75, height 39m with a 5m thick roof, where did you get your 9m roof floor figure? your model looks a bit "squat" compared to the pictures.
    This is the Hamburg one of the same pattern and the mock ups of the 3 patterns, note that the Hamburg one is missing the corner secondary platforms.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    Thankyou Jakob Kjaersgaard - I hope to go into great detail with this, right in to the guts (which I know will be speculative at best), and close enough to be used as a walkthrough or game level.

    TiredOldSoldier - at this point my measurements are coming from a mix of written details and ref extrapolation - Nazi Architecture- Flak Towers (Flakturm).

    And this site offers some usefull interior/wall thickness infomation - 2/Pz. Aufkl.Abt. Grossdeutschland - UK based WW2 German Re-enactment Group

    This information seems to be repeated on the net enough to give me some confidence it is factual - Generation 1
    G-Towers were 70.5 × 70.5 × 39 m, usually armed with eight (four twin) 128 mm guns and numerous 37 mm and thirty-two (eight quad) 20 mm guns.

    As for the 9m Top story measurement - Im afriad it is no more than a crude extrapolation from the front corner measurements of some of the better photo references, so based on a percentage of the overall height of the main structure and then guessing the other top measurements. This is at the moment prone to inaccuracy as its based on the 39mt overal height which Im assuming doesnt include the retractable radar and other roof furniture.

    Ill accept that my height measurements are erm.. scatty at best at the moment - but Im hoping by getting things blocked in more some of the measurements and proportions will start to make a little more sense. So far the corners and then the inset top strucutre have obeyed some basic rules and Im hoping that carries through to the height measurements too - Hope - a wonderfull thing :D

    All in all I dont think Ill be more than a mt out so fingers crossed.

    Thanks for the picture btw - Ill try to match its perspective later to better check my guesswork. Oh an yes - the Hamburg Tower you show has the secondary platforms at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o-clock positions, a lot of the same generation towers had slightly different proportions especially the heights as they seem to have been tailor made to suit their surroundings - so Im off now to look into your tower a little more and make sure of its measurements.
     
  20. Steamtrooper

    Steamtrooper Junior Member

    This site is giving me some odd data on sizes - but also some usefull info on the interior and its uses - Luftwaffenhelfer in Hamburg

    47m * 47mt *43mt

    And this although a different tower gives me some niceinformation to work with - (sorry for the size I have no way of changing this atm - but later today Ill remove and post a smaller version).[​IMG]
     

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