Berchtesgaden

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by Jonathan Saunders, Jun 12, 2005.

  1. I am travelling to Austria next month and might be able to get up to Berchtesgaden and wondered if any Forum users could tell me what you can see there? Can you go up to the Eagles Nest for example?

    Many thanks.
     
  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Berchtesgaden along with Obersalzburg is well worth visiting.The area as a Nazi political centre was largely the work of Martin Bormann who bullied and harassed residents off the mountain village in the 1930s under "compulsory purchase"

    Obersalzburg now houses The Document Centre which records the rise and history of the Nazi regime and has been opened recently.

    The Eagles Nest, ie the teahouse that Bormann had built for Hitler for his Hitler's 50th birthday still stands and can be visited by taking the specially adapted mountain bus that runs frequently from the bus station in Obersalzburg.For reasons of safety, cars are not allowed to use the mountain road. .A car may be driven the the short distance from Berchtesgaden to the car park at the Obersalzburg level car park or alternatively take the bus that runs frequently from Berchtesgaden railway station.

    The Eagle's Nest which was the name given to the teahouse by visiting Italian WW1 veterans or rather to give its Bavarian name as it is known,Kehlsteinhaus, is situated on the Kehlstein Mountain and is accessed from the upper car park by tunnel and lift,both in excellent condition,a tribute to German engineering.The road from Obersalzburg to the Kehlsteinhaus tunnel and lift was constructed by Austrian road engineers who had devised and constructed the mountain road that scaled Grossknockner in 1935.

    Kehlsteinhaus is now a restaurant, the original reception room being used as a dining room along with the SS guardroom.On a clear day it is possible to faintly pick out the past sites of the homes of Hitler's inner circle. All were destroyed apart from Speer's studio.

    Hitler's Berghof was completely levelled by the Bavarian State authorities in 1952 but it's site can be easily picked out by the location of the adjacent Hotel Turken which was compulsory purchased as a SS Officers mess and guardhouse.

    One of the last raids of the war on 25 April 1945 was directed at Obersalzburg with over 300 Lancasters when it was thought that it was the location of an Alpine Nazi Redoubt.Widespread destruction was caused on the ground including severe damage to the Berghof but casualties were very light owing to the extensive air raid shelters and bunker system constructed to protect Hitler's inner circle.

    At the Obersalzburg level, the Platterhoff (which was the SS barracks) and which became the Hotel General Walker, a leave centre for US forces has been raised to the ground after US forces left.In its place a luxury hotel,the Inter Continental Resort has been constructed which has given rise to some adverse comment from the locals.

    Both Berchtesgaden town and the nearby lakeside holiday centre,Konigssee are interesting places to visit.Konigssee is a particularly good family resort.

    Regarding information on the Obersalzburg during the Nazi era it is far better to visit the Berchtesgaden railway station bookshop which has a good selection of books in English and not at the price of those at the Obersalzburg level.
     
    Lindele likes this.
  3. Harry - thanks for your comprehensive answer. Who needs a guide book now!?

    Thanks again.
     
  4. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    The Eagle's Nest was intended as a retreat for Hitler, but he didn't use it much. He was afraid of heights. He entertained a few people there, and Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Regiment took the Eagle's Nest in 1945. The 3rd Infantry took the rest of Berchtesgaden, followed by the 101st Airborne and the French 2nd Armored. Everybody wanted a piece of Hitler's home.
     
  5. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Jun 13 2005, 01:53 PM
    The Eagle's Nest was intended as a retreat for Hitler, but he didn't use it much. He was afraid of heights. He entertained a few people there, and Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Regiment took the Eagle's Nest in 1945. The 3rd Infantry took the rest of Berchtesgaden, followed by the 101st Airborne and the French 2nd Armored. Everybody wanted a piece of Hitler's home.
    [post=35317]Quoted post[/post]
    Kehlstein was probaly used only 3 or 4 times by Hitler. It was intended as a place where he could host diplomats by intimidation due to its presence on the top of a mountain but the War put paid to any of that. The lift up to the house is a mgnificent feat of engineering. It was, and still is, powered by a U-boat engine and the inside of the lift was originally gold plated. The rooms are still preserved with a 30's feel as can be seen from the last episode of "Band of Brothers" however I feel that the restaurant is a little bit out of place. It should have been left as it was.
     
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    According to local historians,Hitler visited the Kehlsteinhaus at least 13 times,the last time being before the war on 12 August 1939.Hitler disliked the Kehlsteinhaus teahaus from the beginning and only visted the place to please Eva Braun and Martin Bormann.Hitler gave the excuse as being short of breath and causing heart heart palpitations due to a change in altitude.The real reason might well have been his affection for the original teahaus on Mooslahhnerkopt (largely destroyed after the war).It was to here that Hitler had his daily ritual walks when at Obersalzburg when he chose a companion to chat and walk with, with the other members of the inner circle bringing up the rear, a regulation 50 paces behind.

    Eva Braun was noted for her liking of Kehlsteinhaus as it was the ideal place to escape to in summer for a spot of sunbathing.On the other hand, Bormann being the womaniser he was, was a frequent visitor usually taking some new conquest or his mistress to the Kehlsteinhaus late at night in a state of being worse for drink.Kehlsteinhaus is normally snowed in from November to late April but when it was part of Bormann's regime,the road was kept free of snow for immediate access should it be required.

    It is worth noting that the Kehlsteinhaus was saved from destruction by its conversion to a restaurant.In 1952 the Bavarian Government proposed to flatten the site for its Nazi connections as they did at the same time with the Berghof and the former homes of the inner circle with the intention of nature reclaiming the Obersalzburg as much as possible.However the local Berchtesgaden authority proposed it would make an excellent restuarant and provide the basis of the introduction of tourist facilities on the Obersalzburg and in particularly Berchesgaden.This was accepted,Kehlsteinhaus escaped destruction and the property is now administered by the local Tourist Board.
     
  7. I just wanted to say your time spent responding to my request was not wasted. I visited Berchtesgaden and Kehlstein last Tuesday. The whole topography and role of these two locations, plus Obersalzburg, is much clearer for having visited and I would strongly recommend this to anyone else if visiting the area.
     
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Some good shots of the post-capture Berchtesgaden:
    Berchtesgaden-The Eagle's Nest
    Along with much controversy over whether the 101st really did get there first.
     
  9. Arsenal vg-33

    Arsenal vg-33 Member

    Some good shots of the post-capture Berchtesgaden:

    Berchtesgaden-The Eagle's Nest

    Along with much controversy over whether the 101st really did get there first.


    Just a quick note before running off to work - I've read several accounts of who it was that arrived there first, and I'm inclined to believe that it was quite possible the 3rd Inf. arrived first, followed by the French 2nd DB. The French were certainly already there before the 101st, even if it was only for a short period.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    This is another one on my "Must see" list.
    Have palnned to go there for awhile but not got there yet.
    I know the family will agree to go there as we can do the "Sound Of Music" tour around Salzburg too.
    Cunning, eh?
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Just a quick note before running off to work - I've read several accounts of who it was that arrived there first, and I'm inclined to believe that it was quite possible the 3rd Inf. arrived first, followed by the French 2nd DB. The French were certainly already there before the 101st, even if it was only for a short period.
    That site would agree very strongly with you.
    They seem to have had quite a dispute with Ambrose about their (the 3rd) claim to the honour.
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Owen - they won't see too much as the famous gazebo is in the grounds of the American Consul/Embassy and is now out of bounds - the Wedding Cathedral is at Mond see - miles away - but the Benedictine Monastery at Melks is well worth a visit, as is the other one further down the Danube at Krems...or the other way - past Berchtesgaden - is Oberammergau where the Passion play is enacted every ten years - all good stuff around that area Richard 111 's jail when Blondin found him.....
     
  13. Pike

    Pike Senior Member

    The Eagles Nest is well worth a visit,for the clean air,the fantastic views,and the obvious historical attraction.

    Just a couple of bits of information for travellers coming down from Saltzberg,at Saltzberg railway station staff at the tourist information are very helpful and will happily provide a bus time-table for those like me going to Bertchesgaden just for the day.
    Outside the station at Stand 3 a pretty regular bus,takes you across Saltzberg and through the mountains into Germany.
    The scenery is lovely but a word of caution,after entering Market Schellengberg the bus has to reverse out of a road in the small town and whoever sits near the back of the bus is expected to shout instructions to the driver.Me being non-German speaking one of the regular travellers on this route had to come and take over these duties before returning to the front of the bus with an explanation ending with Englander and a lot of understanding nodding of heads.

    The bus journey takes between 45 minutes to an hour and drops you outside Bertchesgaden train station,under the canopy a bus takes you the short trip to the Hintereck where another bus takes you up the last leg to the tunnell enterance.All of these bus transfers were very easy with no walking about searching,so it was very well organised.
    Once you've been up in the elevater and had a walk around taking in the various rooms and the breathtaking views i'd reccomend buying one of the local guide books wrote by the local historian Florian,...i'm afraid i don't recall his surname but i think it may have began with B,
    As well as describing the visits,the visiters,and general history of the area,the full time-line of the building works to both road and Tea house is accompnied by dozens of photographs and will be of special interest to those who've been in the building buisness.Coming back down to catch my pre-booked bus i skipped the elevater and trod in the footsteps of the GIs in 1945 coming down the steep pathway.Back in 1945 if i recall rightly the elevater was officers only.

    All in all it was an interesting day spent up on the Obersaltzberg,but one day is nowhere near enough time to take everything in,the next time i'll vist the museum and have a wander around the area up there as theres miles of walking pathways and people are still finding minor relics,also from what iv'e subsequently learnt the town of Bertchesgarden is well worth a visit with Then and Now photographs.

    But for this visit time was little short and i had to make my way back to Saltzberg,then a 3 or so hour train journey back to Vienna where i was hoping to see a bit of European football glory the next day,less said about that the better.
     
  14. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    you did right...if they cant speak tourist english they shouldnt be allowed on the bus..I take it you pointed out to them that at least this englander knows which side of the road to drive on..could have been worse...if you had been quicker you could have said sorry but the road looks a lot different from my last visit..and it was dark and 10000 feet is after all 10000 feet .
     
  15. Pike

    Pike Senior Member

    You've got to be kidding,a crowd of blokes,maybe,but not the regular regional shoppers swinging their shopping baskets around,a lively bunch they were.

    I'll try to locate the authers correct name of the guide book,just in case theres a copy in the inter-library loan system...iv'e a feeling the title was History of the Eagles Nest....surprise ,surprise.

    Its a very informative book and i can't help feeling respect for the workforce up there,it also seems to point to the workforce being skilled and brought in from Austria,Italy,Bavaria and all over Germany,Masons,Chippies,Tarmacers,Brickies,Labourers all skilled and seems to point to some books describing the use of slave labourers to be wrong.

    PS,think the Lancs did their buisness in the daytime,sorry for being picky Urgh.
     
  16. urqh

    urqh Senior Member

    no..not picky...I dont do planes or tanks much..so much on here is an education..now steer me to personalities and ill tell you what time churchill and hitler got up in the morning..but a churchill and a cromwell..gun carriage type things..lanc and halifax..they both had props..
     
  17. Pike

    Pike Senior Member

    History of the Eagles Nest.....by Florian M Beierl.

    Best book on the history area in my opinion and by a local historian who is still adding information to every New Edition.Besides the visits by Hitler and other visiters,the building works etc,theres also a lot of pictures and information on the workers,the conditions they lived and worked in,and the book also covers other aspects both the military presence in the area,Bormanns efforts in farming and the distribution of hundreds of bird boxes,some of which can still be seen.
     
  18. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Other publications worth having are The Eagle's Nest by Andrew Frankel and The Eagle's Nest and Adolf Hitler by Enrst Hanisch.All three (including the Florian M Beierl publication) best bought at the railway station bookshop which you will find much cheaper the the stall at the base of the lift to the Eagle's Nest.The Obersalzberg railway station was virtually rebuilt to accomodate the increased travel activities associated with construction of Hitler's second seat of government.

    As I said before,it is better to take the car up to the Obersalzberg level than using the bus.We first used to bus outside the railway station and I asked the bus driver in my best German if it was the correct bus.He replied in English with a joke and said "Were you a friend of Hitler?".Later we used the car to get to the Obersalzberg level.The demolition of what was left of the SS Barracks had started previous to our visit and revealed foundations to depth of about 20 feet.I would have thought that the barracks would have had cellars and was the reason for the depth of the foundations.

    It looks to me as if plans were first laid down to bomb Obersalzberg in July 1944, possibly initiated by the internal plot and unrest against Hitler.Then the actual plan was detailed on October 4 1944,as A M No 3(k) 20 and allocated an Op No (GN 3770) against two targets,one was Target A, the Eagle's Nest and described as such at an altitude of 6050 feet and Target B,Wachenfels,which was the original name for Hitler's Berghof at an altitude of 3200 feet.

    Interestingly, I was talking to an Air Gunner at a reunion a few years ago and he said he was disappointed that he was grounded for the operation on April 25 1945 due to a heavy cold.But I talking to another of our veterans a few weeks ago at our reunion and he related his involvement on the op of April 25 1945 with a smile. He said that we were very excited when the op was revealed to us and we were to raid Hitler's lair.He was a very young MU on No 170 Squadron,their individual aircraft target was the SS Barracks which was severely damaged.
     
  19. Pike

    Pike Senior Member

    Traces of Evil.Obersalzberg.

    interesting site.
     
  20. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    The Capture of Berchtesgaden

    May 4th 1945 - Including : "Although the popular book and HBO miniseries “Band of Brothers” have supported the myth that it was Sink’s paratroopers who took Berchtesgaden, it was really the infantrymen of the 3rd Infantry Division who made it to the top first."

    The men of Easy Company at Hitler’s “Eagle’s Nest”, 1945 - Rare Historical Photos

    With -
    "It is uncertain which Allied military unit was the first to reach the Kehlsteinhaus. The matter is compounded by popular confusion of it and the town of Berchtesgaden taken on May 4 by forwarding elements of the 7th Infantry Regiment of the 3rd Infantry Division of XV Corps of the U.S. Seventh Army of the Sixth Army Group.
    Reputedly, members of the 7th went as far as the elevator to the Kehlsteinhaus, with at least one person claiming that he and a partner continued on to the top.
    In a Library of Congress interview and more recent interviews, Herman Louis Finnell of the 3rd Infantry Division said that his regiment entered the Berghof, not the Kehlsteinhaus."

    And more details there etc.

    Edit - Threads re. http://ww2talk.com/index.php?search/15520839/&q=Kehlsteinhaus&o=relevance
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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