Beltring War & Peace Show 2006 - 2012

Discussion in 'WW2 Museums. Events, & places to see.' started by Paul Reed, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Adam
    A minor quibble for starters....
    You say David Irving was not an exhibitor ?
    I have to ask:
    Was he exhibiting his books ?
    Did he pay for the use of the stand ?
    Did the organisers receive his application and accept it knowing his background ?
    Not an exhibitor ?, methinks he actually was.
    To clarify my position, I honestly have no quarrel at all with your and others attendance at the event, why on earth should I ?
    An annual event under the title of "War & Peace" chocbloc full of memorabilia, truly worth a visit and as a WW2 veteran my very presence on this forum shows my interest in the subject. In addition I would say again for the umpteenth time how truly impressed I am by the vast knowledge and expertise that is demonstrated by all who post on this forum.
    I do, however, have every quarrel with the organisers of the event for encouraging the SS wanabees and their supporters who included amongst their midst families that dress their children as Hitler Yugend and have a wedding ceremony dressed up as members of the SS.
    Please come back to me if you think I am being unfair
    Cheers
    Ron
     
    Lofty1 likes this.
  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I have a question. Is a reenactor dressed as a digger from 9th Aus.Division at the time of El Alamein legitimate? Or as a highlander from 51st HD at the same time? Or a tanker from US 3rd AD at Mortain? Or as a Goumier from a Tabor in Italy or a Tirailleur Sénégalais (that would be a sight!)?

    So why not a Schütze from 9th SS PD Hohenstaufen at the time of Wacht am Rhein?

    Of course I am aware of the possibility of unsavoury elements. Also, the SS were declared a criminal organization. But can the troops depicted above be represented? Can one show the good guys only? Where do we draw the line?
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    As Gibbo says I have the same feeling of 'why not do Wehrmacht, Afrika, FJ or somesuch' if you want to reenact German, however I also think any taking reenactors too seriously is a dangerous game as they are really mostly telecom engineers from Slough etc. having fun at the weekend... the individuals that the programme chose to focus on stand out like sore thumbs to even a casual observer.

    As for Irving, someone paid for a grotty little trade stall, they brought him along, there are no laws against his nonsense in this country, yet he was presented in the TV programme as a major figure at the show, which he certainly was not, more of a grim curiosity. I'm sure Rex Cadman and his team would feel they had much better things to do in dealing with thousands of vehicles & visitors for a week than bother with any very small trader with objectionable views who was being ignored by the majority anyway. The programme in no way gave any impression of the scale of Beltring and the genuine insignificance of Irving in relation to that scale.
    The exhibitors at Beltring are the vehicle owners, and to a lesser extent the reenactment groups, the traders are in a different category altogether and reflect the makeup of militaria markets at any other location.

    The subject of the SS reenactors could have been fascinating, (anything that throws up this has to be quite intriguing) I've met a fair few who were completely harmless obsessives/collectors, and a handful who were seriously dodgy. If Sweeney had made any real effort to approach a group that's obviously going to be cautious about talking to the media there could have been a most interesting programme. Instead I get the feeling that he would find anyone with a serious interest in the war a weirdo and wasn't ever going to get beyond that point of view.
    Louis Theroux would probably have been the best man for the job.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  4. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

     
  5. marcus69x

    marcus69x I love WW2 meah!!!

    Some great photos from VP and Paul. Cheers guys.

    It looks like a really cool place to visit but I'm just thinking:
    If it takes 7 hours to walk around the merchandise market, not mention everything else, how big is the site? Do you camp overnight and how many days is it over?

    Many thanx
    marcus
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Is Irving as destitute as they say? Living on handouts!
    The evidence of Beltring, his website, and his apparently increasing bitterness appear to bear this out Spidge.

    Marcus, it's absolutely huge. I can't overemphasise that the Hop Farm is a big old site and they use a lot of it's space.
    It runs for a week, I camp from the thursday to the last Sunday and never see everything, particularly since they seemed to have expanded the main vehicle display fields considerably this year. I missed a Hetzer and loads of other interesting vehicles that mates spotted, even though I spend most of my time trudging around the site. (I only hit the main display arena for a few of the dozens of themed displays, in order not to waste too much precious time sitting around waiting for something to begin). 7 hours on the stalls is, of course, entirely optional... but it is fascinating. One mate who's more serious about his collecting probably spends a lot longer than that trawling around, and a collector we met in Jersey said he just passes the entire week doing the traders (in 2006 buying... precisely nothing).
     
  7. marcus69x

    marcus69x I love WW2 meah!!!

    Sounds good mate. Might have to try and get someone to come along with me next year.
     
  8. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    The subject of the SS reenactors could have been fascinating, (anything that throws up this has to be quite intriguing)

    Yes, this is the original Grossdeutsche :elkgrin:

    [​IMG]

    It takes some nerve!
     
  9. cash_13

    cash_13 Senior Member

    He looks like that sergent from Hogens Hero's from when I was a kid
     
  10. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As the German historian stated,nobody learns history from re-enactment.I think it is a case of adults of a certain interlect finding a new game to replace Cowboys and Indians.It has to be said,however that some had a certain feel in the uniform of the SS,it must fullfil their psychological needs.

    (Paint gun fighting games are being sold by specialist companies to businesses who feel that somehow prancing through the countryside will improve their business by enhancing team building and spirit.A case, I feel, of HR departments having a too large a budget.)

    Would the SS re-enactment portrayed be looked on favourabily if performed in Oradour sur Glane or other places throughout Europe and Russia where their excesses were seen by themselves and others associated with the Nazi regime as normal? I fear not.It has to be said that in the real end of its existence,the wears of this uniform could not get out of it faster and disappear into anonymity.

    David Irving.He could have been one of the best historians we had in the post war era in the analysis of the Nazi period but he has chosen the path of denial so much so that I would put him with Zundel in their attempt to distort history.

    I'm afraid that his presence can only result in adverse comment for the event.

    Late posting my view as I have just managed to get back into the forum due to a regime change as they say.
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  12. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!!! THIS IS MP44 (or its earlier modification, no matter)! This is my favourite in Call Of Duty 2 PC game, YEAH!
    [​IMG]
    Do they have its shooting - or its just non-working replicas? I WANT to hold such weapon at least 1 time in my life ::)
    AAAAAAAAAAAAH!! this is Tiger!! DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!! Want to ride such vehice at least 1 time in my life, damn again!
    [​IMG]
    If I'll ever get to such show I'll be EXCITED LIKE HELL, DAMN ME IF NOT!

    DAAAAAMN ME AGAIN! THIS IS MG (not sure what version)! ANOTHER FAVOURITE!! OWWWW!
    [​IMG]
    Is it working?

    PS: sorry for such high emotions..
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  15. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Alex, as A Russian you should be able to tell what tank that mock-up Tiger is.
    Look at wheel arrangement and sprocket, then think of a Soviet tank.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Alex, that's not a real Tiger.

    This is.
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/weapons-technology-equipment/9894-tankfest-videos-tiger.html

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/travel-places-see/7030-bovington-tankfest-sunday-june-25th-2006-a.html

    Wow! I'll watch it!

    Alex, as A Russian you should be able to tell what tank that mock-up Tiger is.
    Look at wheel arrangement and sprocket, then think of a Soviet tank.


    :huh:
    Haha, Owen, u put a shame on me, but... have to say that tanks is not my good area of knowledge :) Think that my area is around SS, nazi-period firearms, common events of Great Patriotic War and... I'm learning everything I can see here and everywhere :)
    Anyway, thnx for every advice :)

    EDIT: not sure but it probably can be T-55 becouse it's a common vehicle for base of mock-ups :)
     
  17. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Looking the War & Peace show 2004, found this:
    [​IMG]
    and got the q: who the hell told them to write on tank "До beрлина!"? :) This is totally incorrect. First of all, that means "Till Berlin", but such phrase as far as I know was never written of soviet tanks, there was "На Берлин!" as common phrase :) wich means closer to "Over Berlin!" than "To Berlin!" :) due variety of phrases to one meaning in russian :)
     
  18. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Looking the War & Peace show 2004, found this:
    [​IMG]
    and got the q: who the hell told them to write on tank "До beрлина!"? :) This is totally incorrect. First of all, that means "Till Berlin", but such phrase as far as I know was never written of soviet tanks, there was "На Берлин!" as common phrase :) wich means closer to "Over Berlin!" than "To Berlin!" :) due variety of phrases to one meaning in russian :)
    Interesting you chose that picture off the open intenet Alex...
    As that's my brother and a mate of mine chatting to the owner ;)

    We were looking good to have a proper clamber inside the tank but it'd just had a a senior moment and spilled 100 litres of fuel out inside the fighting compartment.

    So does this one make any sense?:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Interesting you chose that picture off the open intenet Alex...
    As that's my brother and a mate of mine chatting to the owner ;)

    We were looking good to have a proper clamber inside the tank but it'd just had a a senior moment and spilled 100 litres of fuel out inside the fighting compartment.

    So does this one make any sense?:

    [​IMG]

    Ow! :) Just a coincidence :) haha, to clear out situation - who's who on that picture ;)?
    In addition to say, 'До bерлина!' it is corrupted russian phrase :), it is like I'll write "Thiz gil butiful" trying to say "This girl is beatiful" :) Think, if u trying to re-enact smthn then re-enact it in right way. :)
    To above picture: this also corrupted russian phrase with incorret russian alphabet symbols and means "Old kind Stalin", but U should know that for such phrase in years of Stalin's rule u can get into prison for minimum 5 years.. :huh:
    Anyway, such slogan couldn't appear anyhow. Instead where popular phrase "За Сталина!"(Za Stalina) wich means "For Stalin!" or "За Родину!"(Za Rodinu) wich means "For Motherland!". Also (afaik) such slogans mostly appeared after 1942 when there was first signs of turn in war and such slogans must have provided some ideological support.. :)

    EDIT: often there were written: "За Родину! За Сталина!", as I recalled a few moments ago :))
    In addition as stated here Axis panzers in Red Army, mostly soviet tanks carried only unit/vehicle number and if tank belogns to Guards unit - guards sign. So the red star on this T-34 is almost incorrect :)
     
  20. deadb_tch

    deadb_tch the deadliest b#tch ever

    Adam, look at this pic:
    [​IMG]
    U can see on this captured by soviet troops nazi tank serving for soviet army following phrases: in front, lower side, half-erased - "На Берлин!"(Over Berlin!) and on the left side good-looking "Смерть врагу!" (Death to the enemy! wich was popular also) :)
     

Share This Page