BEF Clothing and Equipment

Discussion in '1940' started by Koen, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. Koen

    Koen Member

    I found this list on the web and I wondered if this list is complete?
    If somebody has something to add please do.

    BRITISH EXPEDITIONARY FORCES Clothing and Equipment:

    Battledress:
    Blouse Battledress Serge. (approved pattern 28 October 1938: No collar lining, chest pockets flaps should line up with 2nd button hole from top; May 1939 pockets are placed ½” higher.) BD Blouse - collar lining came in in May 39, so theoretically it could have been issued BD?

    The trousers have a single pleat in the FFD pocket with the dressing sewn in at manufacture.
    Shirt. The new Khaki angola wool shirt was slow to arrive with Corps units. No evidence to suggest it ever arrived before Dunkirk. Many were still wearing the WW1 Pattern "greyback" shirt with the blue/ white cotton ticked collar.


    Webbing:
    Webbing and respirator to be blancood in Khaki Green 97: light green
    -standard 37 belt with brass slides
    -Mk. I ammo pouches canvas re-enforcing on back is placed 1” higher than mk. II pattern. Mk II introduced by ACI 604 dated 15 June 1940.
    -OR Cartridge carriers (double type) for corps troops.
    -One piece woven shoulder straps
    -07 bayonet and 07 Bayonet scabbard with circular Bayonet Boss.
    -Early pattern skeleton waterbottle carrier with the snap mounted on the side. Waterbottle should be the blue enamel variety.
    -39 pattern entrenching tool and carrier. or just the carrier on its own. (just for infantry?)
    -One piece woven L straps and standard small pack.

    -The groundsheet cape should be the "Cloud" camo pattern (Very Rare!) Tan will have to do.
    -Gascape rolled and worn at the alert position.
    -MkV or MKVI respirator case.
    Were the Respirator cases blancoed by the BRITISH EXPEDITIONARY FORCES?

    Extract from BRITISH EXPEDITIONARY FORCES (BEF) standing orders: Dated 20th March 1940.
    "The respirator case after prolonged use and laundering is appearing conspicuous and with immediate effect should be treated in the same manner as fighting equipment with regards to care and maintenance "
    Taken from "MASK UP - British NBC equipment 1916-1996"

    -Helmet MkI*, I believe need to be early war smooth brown eggshell/satin paint, or with hessian cover. (Did the BEF already wore the MkII helmet in May 1940?)

    -Ammo boots, to be a real stitch counter appropriate early war number of studs and screws in toe-plates,

    -Early war anklets with webbing straps and additional strip of webbing along the top. and brass strap ends

    -Miscellaneous: other kit, early war mess-tins, in aluminium, larger and more square than later types, ...

    Regards Koen
     
  2. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Staff Duties - would normally describe this as FSMO - Full Service Marching Order. A basic equipment scale. with changes for conditions or task. Units may have produced a FSMO scale which would remain on unit Standing Operating Procedures. This allows for written orders to state unit FSMO with the following additions - rather than reproduce a list for each order.

    Blanco could vary by regiment, as a cadet way back when we used the same as the Wessex Division KG 103 (khaki Green)
     
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Just a comment on the helmet finish, Koen. Although surviving helmets do appear brownish, on the odd occasion where they have been protected from light and oxidisation, they retain the khaki green No.3 colour that would have been expected.

    The chromate compounds used to achieve the green balance in KG No.3 were found not to be stable and the finish quickly changed colour on exposure to air. Whether this occurred with the newly delivered Mk11 helmets prior to May 1940 is not known.

    Photographs show a mixture of modified Brodies (the Mk1*) alongside Mk11 helmets. Both are correct for the period (if 1939 dated and with circular pad)

    BEF blanco was very much the light green colour. Isn't KG 97 the late war shade ?

    My impression from period photos is that respirator cases generally weren't blancoed (they're not webbing, after all) but that was probably dependent on the period that they had been in service.
     
  4. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    Blanco was a regimental choice first used in the 1880s the standard colours were:


    Blanco.gif


    KG103 is to my memory the centre colour a pale green.
     
  5. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  6. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    KG 103 (repro)


    10-4446-03a.jpg
     
  7. Koen

    Koen Member

    From the 6 Seaforths war diary:
    [​IMG]

    I thought the BEF didn't not wore shoulder titles or any markings?
    Did the BEF wore hessian covers?
    Did they wore the old SD and P08 webbing in may 1940?
    What kind of clothing was worn by officers? Did they have a specials "tailor" BD or did they wore the same clothing as the troops?

    Regards Koen
     
  8. May1940

    May1940 Senior Member

    I thought the BEF didn't not wore shoulder titles or any markings?
    Did the BEF wore hessian covers?
    Did they wore the old SD and P08 webbing in may 1940?
    What kind of clothing was worn by officers? Did they have a specials "tailor" BD or did they wore the same clothing as the troops?

    Regards Koen

    Koen

    Re helmet covers: they were worn early on (as seen in many photos) but on 27 October 1939, 1 Corps issued the following order which we can assume was similar for the whole BEF:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=57929&stc=1&d=1312391825

    Andrew
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Koen

    Koen Member

    Hello,

    Does somebody know if the BEF used Denim blouses?

    Regards koen
     
  10. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    yes they did have denim BD suits and respirator cases were often blancoed
     
  11. Koen

    Koen Member

    Do you know what kind of units used demin BD suits?

    Regards Koen
     
  12. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    all of them, but they were not taken to France with the initial BEF deployment which went with one suit of BD only and got denims later. I have not seen denim worn in any photos however
     
  13. Koen

    Koen Member

    So Demin suits were never wore by the BEF in France (1939-1940)?
    I ask this because somebody I know is selling a Demin blouse that stayed behind after Dunkirk.

    Regards Koen
     
  14. Welbike

    Welbike Junior Member

  15. Koen

    Koen Member

    Does somebody know what the contense was of the housewife during the Phoney War and Battle for Flanders? If possible I would like to see some original pictures or modern pics of the items?

    Regards Koen
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Housewife (sewing kit): British Army | Imperial War Museums

    The Housewife holdall/pouch contained all that a soldier would require to carry out any repairs to his clothing when necessary. Inside it would contain a thimble, two balls of grey darning wool (for socks), 50 yards of linen thread wound around card, needles, brass dish buttons (for Battledress) and plastic buttons for shirts. The Housewife was often contained within the Holdall (see EQU 4311) and stowed within the man's haversack.
    [​IMG]


    holdall (wash roll) and contents | Imperial War Museums

    Second World War period British Army issue holdall (washroll) containing a soldier's personal requirements for hygiene in the field as well a personal clothing repair kit ('housewife'). The holdall would be carried rolled and stowed in the man's haversack until required. Regular shaving (when practical ) was, and remains, mandatory, promoting cleanliness, morale, and discipline in most theatres of operations.



    [​IMG]
     
    Iago ap Iwan likes this.
  17. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    I would point out that shaving is also considered essential to ensure that your gas mask or respirator fits closely enough to keep the nasty stuff out. Pioneer sergeants are of course immune!

    Chris
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    I'm disinterring an old one here, rather than starting new...

    Has anyone in a BEF war diary or standing instructions actually seen written evidence of the shade of 'Blanco' to be used by a given unit ?

    It strikes me as odd, but I've never seen anything.
     
  19. nickgrace1

    nickgrace1 Active Member

    I found this an interesting list and threat. I have been researching the 2/5th Queens in 1940. The paint they used when sent over in April 1940 actually gave a kind of gloss effect which shines under the sun. I don't know how common it was with the whole BEF but I understand why hessian covers were used.
     

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