Discussion in '1940' started by Owen, Oct 18, 2006.
Thanks for info , that will be usefull in dating photos.
Spotted recently Helmsley steam fair, Austin 7 with pre / early war markings. These cars are quite often mentioned as officers transport in 1940 BEF accounts , but I've never seen or heard of them after Dunkirk.
The book Military Transport of World War One by Ellis/ Bishop (which covers things until 1939 )has good explanation of BEF markings and colour sketches of BEF and German vehicles . Might scan in the page.
Is this link of any use?
British Formation Signs
This should get you dribbling Rich:
nice one andy, exactly what I wanted to see.
Hopefully when I get around to copying II and III Corps they'll have one too for their Divs etc.
I've erm come over all faint ! I need some time to go through this. Cheers Andy !
It's a bit difficult to interpretate the significance without seeing the earlier letters detailing the markings involved.
I've been comparing the original list with that given by Hodges & Taylor based upon a War office letter dated 12/4/1940 in WO32/11617.
Fundamentally, they agree although the War Diary example is of course much more specific to 1 Corps so lists units involved.
Andy, is there any indication of the publication date of the booklet ? Did you photograph the outside back cover ? Any printer's reference ?
The hand-written inclusion of 48th Div places the printed version prior to January 1940 as they did not arrive until then. It's interesting that we have evidence of the vehicle badge with macaw but this is not shown on the drawing.
The War Diary copy differs from what I expected in that the background colour for all Divisional HQ units is shown as black and there is a certain logic to this but it runs contrary to the practice shown at Corps level where they used the relevant 'arm' colours. Hodges & Taylor indicate the use of the coloured backgrounds for divisions, at least from April.
I suspect that the booklet probably dates from late 1939 and that the colours were amended or clarified at a later date but am surprised that it was not amended (unless it was a 'file' copy that was saved just by chance).
My motorcycle has no indication of a number applied directly to the black number plate. It was painted blue first. It was probably manufactured during January 1940 and was then despatched to Chilwell. It would seem reasonable to assume that it took a month or two to arrive with the division so I'd guess that by at least March 1940, the colours had been updated.
I can't be sure about the print details but I remember only checking all the pages for any images etc.
And a correction:
I Corps Admin Order N.110 dated 4 Mar. 1940
Separate names with a comma.