BEF 1940 Vehicle markings.

Discussion in '1940' started by Owen, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    All the numbers/colours/symbols etc. that ID Brigades and Regiments etc.

    I think ATB OMG list all the 30 Corps ones that took part in OMG but obviously that around 4 years to early for me.
     
  2. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    All the numbers/colours/symbols etc. that ID Brigades and Regiments etc.

    I think ATB OMG list all the 30 Corps ones that took part in OMG but obviously that around 4 years to early for me.

    1944 is Four years too early ? What are you studying ? The Malayan emergency ?:)

    If you want BEF markings, then Hodges & Taylor list Arm of Service for Infantry & Armoured Divisions, as well as Corps which covers most things and if this is combined with the formation signs information from Cole then it's possible to identify the majority.
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Rich can you post or email me a couple of scans from each regarding the symbols etc to see what they are like?

    And yes I ment too late ;)
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    In the absence of a more appropriate thread, I'll post it here. The old 16H in 2nd Infantry Division markings has been out terrorising the village today, probably almost seventy years to the day since it was abandoned. It's actually a little further east than the divisional cavalry, 4th/7th Dragoon Guards reached on 10th / 11th May 1940.

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, there were to many walkers and cyclists around today to risk any illegal green-laning :mad:
     
    Za Rodinu, Drew5233 and Owen like this.
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Rich, loverly photo of a lovely machine.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Excellent work Rich.....Shall I bring my helmet with me in 12 days time?
     
  7. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Excellent work Rich.....Shall I bring my helmet with me in 12 days time?

    ...If it's a Mk1* or a very early MkII with the circular crown padding, otherwise forget it ! :p
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Dam, its a Arai RX-7 Corsair :(
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Careful - this might be the sort of thing he has in mind...

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I couldn't resist bidding on a recent eBay German photograph. 2nd Division 'crossed keys' and a motorcycle in the same photo.

    [​IMG]

    The Triumph 3SW has a rather unusual positioning for the Arm of Service marking. The number '26' indicates Divisional Supply Company RASC.

    The Morris Commercial CDF carries a '3' which I would expect to relate to the senior field regiment (10th Field Regiment RA in this case) although background should be red / blue and I can't discern that.

    The right hand vehicle appears to be a Crossley IGL8.

    I have no idea of location but smoke on the horizon and general activity suggest close to the front line.
     
    von Poop and LesCM19 like this.
  11. LesCM19

    LesCM19 "...lets rock!"

    I have no idea of location but smoke on the horizon and general activity suggest close to the front line.

    Looks like the smoke is emanating from a ridge in the distance and between the 2 tree trunks & the smoke looks like either some chateau or could just be a stand of dense fir trees? The midday shadows suggest the road runs N-S.

    I wonder what route 2nd Div took in the campaign?

    Nice candid snap BTW
     
  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I'm going to have to investigate further Les. 2nd Division took a lot of casualties along the La Bassee canal with HQ moving north to Poperinghe where the majority of vehicles were abandoned but these look battle damaged (except perhaps for the motorcycle) and the two trucks are facing opposite directions.

    I did wonder from the shadow along the ridge if I was looking at a railway embankment but it seems too high and stops short ?

    I've been re-examining some of the eBay shots that I've followed (but not won) and found this nice one of an Austin 8HP abandoned with a Leyland Retriever, carrying the 'wavy lines' of 2 Corps and the 31 with white bar indicating corps signals on both vehicles.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I couldn't resist bidding on a recent eBay German photograph. 2nd Division 'crossed keys' and a motorcycle in the same photo
    Lovely shot Rich.
    I know you don't care :D but the speeding demag & PaK's rather nice too.

    (16H looking splendid by the way.)
     
  14. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Lovely shot Rich.
    I know you don't care :D but the speeding demag & PaK's rather nice too.

    (16H looking splendid by the way.)

    Don't care Adam ? Do my posts suggest a BEF fascination with little regarding the 'other lot' ? How is that possible ? :) It is an image which appealed. Nicely framed and with an interesting depth of field.

    I had some hope of bringing up the census number on the bike but my scanner isn't up to it. Whilst there are lots of German photos from May 1940, they tend to be these small 8 x 6 sizes and not very receptive to enlarging.

    I followed the seller's auctions for a while, hoping for more clues but this one hasn't been in an album and there was nothing else similar. It's marked on the reverse 'Photohaus Freytag - F0053 - Zeulenroda'
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    If the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Depending on the time of the day wouldn't thay be walking east or west?

    Great pic by the way.
     
  16. LesCM19

    LesCM19 "...lets rock!"

    If the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Depending on the time of the day wouldn't thay be walking east or west?

    I did think that the road could be running NW-SE if the sun had just come up or SW-NE if it was going down but the shadows are very short so I figured in May that must be about midday, so the shadows would point North.
    (If the pic was taken on the equator & it was sunrise or sunset I think the road then could be running due East or West but at those times of day the shadows would be way longer).
    Basic boy scout stuff, no? ;)
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers Les, I'll take your word for it - My training consisted of switching on and off a GPS.
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    This eBay sale photo shows a formation sign which I haven't seen before in a BEF photograph. Perhaps not surprising as 42nd (East Lancashire) Division only arrived in France during April 1940 so they probably don't appear in many phoney war photographs. The diamond is red with a white centre.

    Is that Noddy on the rad. grille ?

    [​IMG]

    Car is the same type of Humber Snipe Heavy Utility which Drew photographed in Dunkirk :-

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-battlefields-today/26374-dunkirk-70-years-6.html (Picture No.13)

    The car which was in Dunkirk is actually a BEF survivior. It saw wartime use with the Kriegsmarine before being taken over by the French fire brigade and eventually being preserved in the UK
     
  19. JCB

    JCB Senior Member

    Many of the BEF vehicles (all?) wear civilian type number plates and registration numbers in addition to census numbers, unit markings etc .Does anyone know anything about them , were they issued by civilian authorities ? when did they stop using them ?
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    All WD vehicles prior to the outbreak of war were required to be registered and taxed. The sequences used were from blocks of Middlesex numbers (so quite often with the second letter being 'M' )

    I've never seen the official documents but it is clear that vehicles taken on strength after September 1939 no longer had to carry civil registrations. It would seem from photographic evidence that those which were registered and taxed continued to wear them in the UK at least up until the tax ran out.

    Generally speaking, by May 1940, they had disappeared from vehicles in France but there may have been exceptions.

    RAF and RN are not my strong point but seem to have continued longer with 'On Official Duties' discs replacing the road fund licence.
     

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