BEF 1940 Vehicle markings.

Discussion in '1940' started by Owen, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    There was an interesting photo on ebay Germany. I thought of bidding but it went to £70 +:unsure:

    ebay 380168148069

    The original print is reversed but I've turned it round :-

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    It principally interested me because the Morris-Commercial PU4 carries the macaw of 48th (South Midland) Division and the '20' (it would be on brown) indicates HQ of the junior brigade, in this case 145th Infantry Brigade.

    The brigade was captured in its entirety so presumably this photo is a witness to their last stand.
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    What a superb find !!!
    Rich,
    If 20 is the junior bde what are the otehr codes from back then?
     
  3. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I missed the question in post #20 first time round.

    I can't fit an '84' into the scheme of things at corps level. I suspect that it is '34'

    The plate seems to have a vertical colour division but I suspect it is shadow on a bent surface.

    '34' on red would indicate a Machine Gun battalion at corps level. in this case probably 8th Battalion Middlesex Regiment.
     
  5. Rob Dickers

    Rob Dickers 10th MEDIUM REGT RA

    I missed the question in post #20 first time round.

    I can't fit an '84' into the scheme of things at corps level. I suspect that it is '34'

    The plate seems to have a vertical colour division but I suspect it is shadow on a bent surface.

    '34' on red would indicate a Machine Gun battalion at corps level. in this case probably 8th Battalion Middlesex Regiment.

    RA LAA Regts in the BEF at this time used vertical coloured Tac signs, can't see 84+34 there though.
    Rob
    RA 1939-45 2 Corps
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    This is same street as Rich's new picture from other end , isn't it???
    new member Alain has it on his website.

    Cassel

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  7. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I now have a motorcycle carrying 1940 2nd Division markings in the garage again.

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    It's almost uncanny to see it standing there. I'm looking forward to photographing it at the appropriate locations.

    The stencilling is deliberately a bit 'hurried' in an attempt to replicate the original (not that I'm any great shakes as a painter).

    Despite my best intentions, my symmetrical head didn't manage to cope with placing the stencil off-centre as it 'should' have been.

    [​IMG]
     
    Owen likes this.
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Did you make the stencil using the original cross keys?
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Good Job Rich !

    Wish I had seen thos Cassel pic's before I went :(
     
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    I did my best having traced the surviving detail and then re-touched the missing bits together with tidying it up a bit and taking an average of the two sides. The fact that there is a double curvature on the mudguard plus that flared centre rib meant that the original card stencil had distorted during application but if I'd used that shape and not got it in exactly the same place, it would have been completely wrong.

    I actually had self-adhesive stencils cut from my drawings. I'd have made a horrible mess trying to hold a card stencil down on that surface. The whole thing is based on a 2" dimension.

    I see comparing the two that the 'handle' should have been more elliptical and less flat-sided but there came a point where I had to decide 'that's good enough'

    I could find no traces of 'cut-outs' on the operating part of the key either front or rear although these are visible on some larger vehicles. I assume that the smaller stencils for motorcycles were simplified in this case.

    It hasn't gone so smoothly on the fuel tank tonight as the masking tape lifted the paint on the black panel. Back to green and start again !:huh:
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Wish I had seen thos Cassel pic's before I went :(

    I think the point here Andy is that one thing leads to another with these pictures. Sometimes the coincidences seem impossible.

    Who knows what new images your Dunkirk thread will bring to light ?

    I do try to use Google France from time to time. English language Google doesn't seem to 'get in' to French web sites very well, even if only searching on the French spelling of place names.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I found the local tourism info office a massive help - Bless them in Dunkirk I had 40 A4 pictures and they ID'd most of the locations for me so I could get the 'Now' shot.

    Ps I think I've ordered that book you recommended ;)
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    This is same street as Rich's new picture from other end , isn't it???
    new member Alain has it on his website.

    Cassel

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Anyone know if these are take on Rue d'Aire, north of Rue du Marechal Foch in Cassel?

    Doh...Just clicked the link. Guess where I'm going in Feb :D
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Finally got around to tracking down the photo of 52nd Div carrier I mentioned in post #3 back in 2006.
    anyonw know what unit used the tac sign 15 ?

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  15. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Nice picture Owen. Is there a photo credit ?

    15 (on red) would indicate the junior battalion of the senior brigade so I calculate 155th Infantry Brigade and 5th KOSBs presumably shortly after landing in Cherbourg. I think that the 'K' is some sort of embarkation code.
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    . Is there a photo credit ?

    Ah yes IWM photo.
     
  17. Richard Harrison

    Richard Harrison Senior Member

    the carriers look to be earlier Mk1's and are British (or british built.... or at very least the first carriers made by the Canadians as these were made with British componentry) they have the Lucas lamps fitted and the earlier position of the "shepherds crook" track tensioner on the glacis plate ;) a fantastic shot. the first carrier shots (deffinately the second with the germans onboard) are bren carriers rather than Universals. you can tell by the sloping rear armour and the shepherds crook is on the gunners sand guard (the position of the crook is not fool proof of course)

    Richie
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

  19. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Is there a reference book on the market containing all the British vehicle markings during WW2?
     
  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Is there a reference book on the market containing all the British vehicle markings during WW2?

    In a word, 'No' :mellow:

    Hodges & Taylor as mentioned in post #4 is the best that I know of for Arm of Service insignia and it is far from complete. Howard Cole is very good on Formation signs.

    How much detail are you looking for ?
     

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