Beds and Herts

Sorry Yes on the service record card

 

I don't know if I'm being blind but I can't see B and D anywhere ?

 

Ha sorry I'll zoom in a bit

 

Do you mean at the top? It says Beds and Herts.

 

No the one underneath and the forth one down

 

I think it says Q.O.R which I'm going for Queens Own Royal ( west Kent ) regiment. They were in the same brigade as 2 beds and Herts.
The other one looks like GSC which is General Service Corps. People would be in the GSC awaiting transfer to the Engineers etc ( if you had a speciality / trade )

Alex

 

Oh great thanks for clearing that up I was under the impression that that said QOR rest !

Looks like he was only there for 5 weeks before joining RE. He was a riveter on Lancaster Bombers when the war started with his brother, he went to war and his brother stayed at home they never really got on after that

 

No probs. The 2nd battalion were based at Milton Barracks in gravesend, Kent from 1936 until going over with the BEF. Gravesend is my home town ( my grandad met my nan whilst here)

Alex

 

I am just starting on a quest to find out more about my Dad's war. He died in 2002 and like many people of his generation he was stoical and fairly quiet about his war and his brief encounter with the Germans.
His name was Frederick Morgan. After the Duke of York's RMS in Dover he joined the Beds and Herts as a boy in 1936 - signing on in Gravesend. He was posted to the band for some reason and that shaped his life. He always maintained that at some point after the outbreak of war, military bands in many infantry regiments were, no pun intended, disbanded. He then trained in the use of the Boys (named after Captain Boys) Anti-tank rifle, which he took to France with him as part of the BEF. He was in 2nd Battalion and recalled a very long trip into France and Belgium, marching and travelling by train.

Apparently having got where they were going, the collapse of the front further south meant that he and his colleagues had to march back to Dunkirk. I doubt he literally marched all the way back but I don't know for sure. What became of the Boys rifle he never said although I don't think he brought it back with him! We had a few anecdotes but our information - and sadly our curiosity was a bit lacking. His explanation on his evacuation was memorable and poignant for us. Separated from his colleagues because he was wounded by shrapnel in the knee and under the chin he found his was we think to the Mole. He joined a group of what he always said were guardsmen patiently waiting for evacuation. Their officer seeing he has wounded called him forward and they put him in a boat rowed by a rating which took him out to a waiting ship. Disobeying instructions he felt it may not be wise to go below decks, having seen what was going on around him and stayed on deck! Eventually, he found himself back in the UK embarrassed but glad to be home and on his way to a former mental hospital in Epsom where he was treated with a group of French North African soldiers.

You can tell that there is so much we don't know but my brother and I re keen to put more detail in the story - as if we don't it may well be lost. We are trying to locate his service number at the time and I will post it as soon as we have found it. I realise when I have that I can obtain his records from the MoD. Meanwhile there is so much information on here it might add to the story. I have seen references to War Diaries and I have been in touch with Bedford County archives but they have little material on the regiment. The IWM appear to have some papers and I will look into going up to view those. In short if anyone has any background or more detail on particularly the fate of former bandsmen I would be very interested and grateful.

He did survive clearly, and fortunately the Beds and Herts band was reformed once he returned to duty - it now being thought to be good for moral - civilian and military. After the war he went to Kneller Hall became the bandmaster of the 1st Battalion The Parachute Regiment, his then claim to fame was that he was one of the oldest paras to get his wings - albeit reluctantly. I have attached a later picture from the fifties, with Monty as I think the latter was given the Freedom of Aldershot. Clearly the copyright is not mine, but he is talking to the Field Marshal - no doubt about Dunkirk!

 

Great stuff.
So he was from Kent? Are you in Kent by any chance?
The bandstand in town ( gravesend) where the military bands played is still standing.
Did he go to Palestine in 1936 with the 2nd battalion ?

Alex

 

Hi, no he was actually living in Lewisham at the time he joined up. How he came to join the Beds and Herts I am not sure. He didn't go to Palestine perhaps having just joined as a boy he was either doing basic training or there was a prohibition because of his age. Perhaps when we get his service record it might throw more light on the circumstances. We do know he met our Mum while he was at Kempston Barracks!


Just found this picture post Dunkirk at the Epsom hospital. he is standing in the dressing gown!

Andrew

 

Where in the UK are you? I've been to the archives at Bedford council offices and they have pictures and documents relating to the 1st and 2nd battalion. Also the regimental journal "the wasp" is in Bedford library.
Any writing on the back of that pic?

 

Hello Alex

Nothing on the reverse I'm afraid. I am just south of Guildford. Ironically because of the family connection with Kempston I have a cousin who works at the Bedford archive!

I also have a picture of the band post Dunkirk doing what I assume is a recruitment concert in either Bedford or Luton I don't know either place well enough to know which!

I will post it if its of interest.

Best

Andrew

 

Any pics welcome!

Have you been to the archives?

 

I haven't actually been to the archive - it will now be on my list. My inquiry was initially about the relevant war diaries but I understand these are now either in the IWM or the National Archive.
The attached picture was presumably taken for a newspaper, I assume the local papers of the time are good sources for such things. Certainly there were many concerts in the Bedford Corn Exchange. My Dad is the drummer standing at the back.

Andrew

 

Great pic! Yes the war diaries are at Kew. At Bedford archives they have a copy of the history of the regiment ( I have one too) which is as rare as hens teeth. That has first hand accounts and is worth the trip.

 

Aside from the war diaries, thinking about this further, there must have been a muster list or roll taken of returning soldiers and where they were landed. My assumption is that these would be at Kew. The walking wounded like my Dad must also have been processed in a particular way for them to be dispersed around the various requisitioned hospital facilities. I am not sure if this topic has been covered before, but I will check on the site.

 

Andrew,
1st Battalion Beds & Herts, Corps of Drums, Kailana 1934, L/Cpl Morgan.
Could this be your dad?
Guy

 

Interesting picture, but no this is not my Dad. I think he joined up later as a boy. I think his first overseas posting was as part of the BEF. This looks like a section from the Corps of Drums who traditionally would not be full time bandsmen, but regular infantrymen seconded to the band for ceremonial occasions like beating retreat.
The attached picture shows him with the bandsman's lyre badge in 1942 after the regimental band was reformed.

 

Guy

I am pretty sure he was in 2nd Battalion and my brother is looking through what documents we have so that we can confirm his number and unit. Thanks for your interest.

Andrew