Battlefield visit advice; 11 RTR, Normandy

Hi all, Happy New Year - I'm afraid that I don't know we're to post this: My father joined the rtr in 1939 (Oldham) 41st rtr then 47tg rtr went on to serve in North Africa 1942 -battle of El Alemein, returned to England 1943 - joined 44th rtr for a short period, went onto Normandy were he served with 11th rtr - I assume he was at the battle of Goodwood, Epsom, etc. In June next year, my family are travelling to Bayeaux and would like someone to point us in the direction of any tours that are associated with his regiment at this time. I have his military records which just indicate regiment and date 1944-45 11th rtr ending in Lubeck. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

 

Thank you for your help, much appreciated.

 

Not much in the Regiments 1944 war diary I'm afraid. Looks like you'd need a regimental history.

 

This little snippet from the RTR Association web page....

 

And this from wiki....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_Defence_Light

 

Hi All, it states on my fathers service record that he was posted to the 11th Battalion Royal tank regiment until the 11/46 when he joined the 44th rtr until 1946 when he was transferred to 1L&B Yeo - although it also states, embodiment (Home) 2/9/39 - 24/7/42 (2 years 326 days) then ME 25/7/42 until 22/4/44 (109 days) Home 23/4/44 until 9/8/44 1 yr 258 days NWE 10/8/44 until 24/4/46. 1yr 258 days. Home 25/4/46 until 31/7/46. Total service : 7years 56 days. My father told me he served in North Africa (not with the 41st/47th rtf with whom he joined then? He, like so many others rarely spoke of the things that he and others witnessed, and I was only young when he died, quite young. I do remember him talking about flail tanks, buffalo tanks, building bridges? Also, crossing the Rhine, and of driving a commanding officer behind enemy lines, by accident! I think he mostly recalled North Africa, but I had always assumed it was with his pals from Oldham. He did tell me of the Russians in Germany ( I suppose) who raped and killed many innocent civilians, including woman and small children. I just want to follow some of his footsteps if at all possible, as, nearing his age, I want to know what he experienced. So we're would I obtain the regimental history? Thank you all for your help, but this is so important to me now.

 

Footnote: So, when my father enlisted in 1939 with the 41st then 47th rtf (Oldham) in 1941 he was transferred, after training, to the 11th royal tank regiment, and did not serve with any of his friends from the regiment he joined in Oldham, which I thought he had gone overseas with? I wonder why?

 

Soldiers were sent where they were needed, it might have been that his skills were deemed useful, or indeed that he deserved a break from combat in a front line unit.
41 and 47 rtr were originally territorial units, 41 took part in the 2nd battle of El Alamein but looks like it was broken up and it`s personnel dispersed afterwards to other units.
There is a 41 and 47 RTR Association by the looks of it. Maybe someone there might have a recollection of your father.... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tankeddy/

 

Hi slick, thank you for your info regarding the 41/47th association web page - I have just sent an email, so, hopefully I will receive some information on him. Thank you.

 

Also, I do not understand why it states that they did not see any action in the Middle East, when he clearly told me that he served in North Africa, and his records show he trained at Lough, and Spalding - not Penrith etc - so there is some conflicting information there. It's all very confusing to me, but then there are a lot of things that are confusing to me........

 

Hi, could anyone tell me were I would obtain his regimental history (11th rtr) would it be from Bovington? Do I just send a request, and how much would it cost? Thank you once again.

 

Have a look at this thread hidip.... http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/44704-lad-atd-11-bn-rtr/

 

Hi again, thanks, I have tried, without success to access the site, but it says , sorry page cannot be found? I onder if it would be better to write/email bovington tank museum to see if they have any records. Or perhaps ask Owen if he could obtain the relevant war diaries from Kew.....? I am still at odds with his military records that state he trained at Lough, then Spalding I assume with the regiments he joined 41st/47th 1939/41 then transferred? He did tell me he served in North Africa, but that must have been with the 11th rtr, and that he returned to uk to retrain for Normandy, I need some more information, obviously, as without knowing where he actually fought in Normandy with the 11th rtr, how can I visit the same? If he did not see much action in North Africa, or Normandy, he must have joined an extremely lucky regiment! He told me stories of the desert, the flies, the heat, the coldness at night, lost comrades etc....and then NWE he told me of losing friends, snipers, atrocities, so he MUST have seen some action, but where? I always thought that Montys tanks were at Goodwood, Epsom, Hill 112, etc? Have I been following the wrong units? I will have to see if I get a response from Tankeddy at the 41st/47th association, but someone has told me that this is now closed, due to lack of members, my father was 17yrs old when he joined and would have been 95yrs old had he still been with us (which I wish he was) in the meantime, thank you so much for your help and information, I really do appreciate it, my father was a good, kind gentleman, as so many veterans are, I would dearly love to follow in his footsteps if at all possible. Thank you again.

 

The tank museum might have a digitised copy of.... History of the Eleventh Battalion, Royal Tank Regiment by Major S.I. Howard-Jones.
Plus the archive files you want at Kew are....
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=1&_ep=WO+171/870&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=1&_ep=WO+171/4714&_dss=range&_ro=any&_hb=tna

The 11th was part of Hobarts funnies, they were equipped with searchlight tanks at first then amphibious Buffalo`s, so not exactly fighting tanks. As the 11th didn`t land in Normandy until August they would have missed Epsom and Goodwood.
Off the top of my head I would say there is very little in Normandy associated with the regiment. It sounds as if they landed in August by which time the battles had moved away from the area (Caen was taken at the end of August), then didn`t see action until September.

 

Hi, he must have seen some action, what about Antwerp? I am finding it difficult to see how any regiment as much action in Normandy, but perhaps like I said before, I am just following the British tank regiments in Nomandy? I suppose if Caen was already taken by the time the 11h rtr got there, there must have been other battles to fight? I remember him telling me that the commander of the tank was shot crossing over the Rhine, but that they tended to keep there heads above the turret. I suppose I will have to wait and see if Tankeddy replies.....as far as I can tell he was very lucky being attached to this regiment, although I suppose no one involved in WW2 could be considered lucky.........

 

Here`s some footage of amphibious Buffaloes in Holland, from the markings they could be 11rtr....
http://www.ina.fr/video/AFE86003010

And here` some (skip to 5:54) crossing the Rhine....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0kivNy8VHo

 

Hi Slick, just watched the crossing, noticed the amphibious craft crossing at the end of the film, might have been my father on one of those....thank you for your continued input, I really do appreciate all your help.......thank you

 

I have sent for an received the War Diary of the 11th rtr - it looks to me that when he joined them he must have spent a lot of time in Holland, he must have been wi h the 79th armoured division, Hobarts Funnies, although there is a list of names of the divisions included in this diary, example troopers etc and there duties, maintenance, driver, etc, the list is of A B and C squadrons, my fathers name does not appear on these lists? His name is Joseph McEntee trooper number 7896748. - would I be able to find out more detailed information though his service number? He was born in Oldham on the 8th December 1921 and died August 1994 - so he was originally with the Royal Tank regiment in Oldham joining in 1939 - I can't ze m to find any information about him anywhere, so any help would really be appreciated. Thank you so much.

 

Just noticed he IS listed as Tpr. McEstes, J. "HQ" squadron. (His name is McEntee) typo error? At least I know he was listed on the "HQ" Squadron whatever that was? We are staying in a hotel in Bayeaux on June 13th - too far away from where he was? Thank you.