Battle Honours - Greece 1944/45

Hi Everyone.

The following regiments were awarded Battle Honours Greece 1944/45 for their services in and around Athens.

Kings Regiment, Parachute Regiment, Queen’s Westminsters, Kings Dragoon Guards, Somerset Light Infantry, Essex Regiment, Durham Light Infantry, Highland Light Infantry, Royal Fusiliers, Royal Hampshire Regiment, Bedford and Herfordshire Regiment

Missing from this list are three of the first regiments to arrive in Athens on Oct 44 just days after the paras of 2nd Ind Para Bde Gp. Namely 40th, 46th and 50th RTR.

In a most unique formation for WW2, these regiments of 23rd Armd Bde were dismounted (only 23 tanks initially) and re-trained as infantry. During the first phase of the Greek Civil War, they fought tenaciously, under going house clearing operations against a very determined and well equipped pro communist insurgency in Athens who wore no uniform. They put up a sustained defence of the centre of Athens, outnumbered 4 to 1, until 2 Inf Divs of reinforcements could arrive. They stayed in Athens until 1946 until their units were disbanded.

Question is why wasn't this most unusual of wartime formations in WW2 recognised by awarding battle honours to the three tank regiments? From what I have read thus far, they fought just as hard as any of the others.

You thoughts please

Regards

Gus
Son of driver at 23rd Arm Bde REME Workshosps, Athens.

 

Gus,

I cannot provide you with an answer to you question, but my late father was with the 4th Reconnaissance Regiment, which were withdrawn from the Gothic line on Christmas of 1944 and shipped to Greece for a New Year's present.

My father, later in life, received a medal and scroll from the Greek Government.

See my profile page for photos, one of which he is strolling in Athens April 1945.

If you use the search facility you can look up the War Diaries of my Fathers Division for 1944 and 1945.

Regards
Tom

 

Thanks Tom.

I was not aware that anyone got any commemorative medals from the Greek government. You must be very proud. My dad got an Italy Star for his services in Greece (strange!).

The REME workshops was one of many facilities not situated with any tactical thoughts in mind. After all they were there initially for humanitarian reasons. When it all kicked off on 3rd Dec those units located outside Gen. Scobies "Thin line of Black Hats" had to fend for themselves. Dad's workshop was machine gunned and sniped and mortared continuously for two weeks from the ELAS HQ located in the Fix Brewery opposite and were only pulled out on 16th Dec 1944, when they were fired upon by a ELAS 75mm artillery gun, positioned some 1200 yards away in the vicinity of the Agios Ioannis church. His workshop was moved to the Athens base area at Pharelon and then to Kalamaki until on 18th Dec 1944 a major operation by 28th Inf Bde, 2nd Ind Para Bde Gp and 23rd Armd Bde cleared the Athens/Pharelon road and kicked ELAS out of the Fix Brewery. The workshop was back in its old location in Athens by the 23rd Dec 1944.

I have looked at you diaries before, they were very useful thanks. I have quite a few diaries myself over the worst of the troubles (except the paras) and will PM you what I have. I will be more than happy to email you anything you wish to look at.

Regards

Gus

 

Mate, is there any bibliography available about this not-so-known (at least to me ) chapter of the war? Sounds like my kind of stuff.

 

Hi
Scobie, Hero of Greece, The British Campaign 1944-45 by Henry Maule, would be a good read as any. You'll probably find an old copy somewhere on Amazon.
Happy reading
Gus

 

My Grandfather, of 1 New Zealand General Hospital 4th Reinforcements, also received a medal and scroll from the Greek Government for his services in Greece.

 

I was not aware that anyone got any commemorative medals from the Greek government. You must be very proud. My dad got an Italy Star for his services in Greece (strange!).

I would say it is the Commemorative Star for the War of 1941-1945,


Not the Greek War Medal 1940-1941 for Greece and Crete

 

Does anyone have any idea how it is decided who does and who doesn't receive battle honours?

 

The need to develop a centralised system to oversee the selection and granting of battle honours arose in the 19th century following the increase of British military engagements during the expansion of the Empire. Thus in 1882, a committee was formed to adjudicate applications of battle honour claims. This committee, later called the Battles Nomenclature Committee, still maintains its function in the British Army today.

Battle honour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I would say it is the Commemorative Star for the War of 1941-1945,


Not the Greek War Medal 1940-1941 for Greece and Crete

Does anyone have any idea how it is decided who does and who doesn't receive battle honours?

Spider,

Yes that is the medal, thanks for posting.


Gus,

Contact the Greek Embassy and you should be able to get details from tha Military Attache.

They require proof of Army service and serving in Greece at any time during WW2.

The Scroll is very nice and comes with a translation.

Regards
Tom

 

Gus,

Here is a photograph of my late fathers medals and scroll.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=356


Regards

Tom

 

That looks beautiful Tom. Wish I had my dad's medals.

Lesley

 

Spider,

Yes that is the medal, thanks for posting.

The Greek War Medal 1940-1941 was for battling Nazi Tanks and Stukas, and the odd Fallschirmjäger.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8h7JuWiEnPHAcOW5fhBVJEdZBvHvhxLHca1XIdj4OAQao2VLB

 

Hi Everyone

Many thanks for the info about the medals. I may well write to the Greek embassy once I've pieced together my fathers exploits in Athens in 44/45.

Back to the original question though (apologies if anyone has confused regimental battle honours with individual awards and service medals), can anyone fathom why elements of 4th Indian Div and 4th British Inf Div would get 'battle honours' (ie Greece 1944/45 on their regimental colours) but 40th, 46th, & 50th RTR got nothing?

Seems a very strange decision considering that 23rd Arm Bde were in the thick of it from the start and as dismounted 'tankies' were way out of their comfort zone, so to put it.

Gus

 

The Royal Tank Regiment carries the battle honour Greece 1941 (and lots of others of course), so what is the problem? Battle Honours are awarded to the Regiment or Corps, not to individual units (even though it may only have been one unit of that Regiment who earned the honour) in the British Army.

Ah, should be Greece 1944/45 and RTR does indeed not carry that one and I don't know why. You might have to ask the MoD Battle Honours Committee (if such still exists). Maybe RTR did not wish to be reminded of an occasion when they were dismounted and had to fight as Infantry!

Chris

 

Gus,

Here is a photograph of my late fathers medals and scroll.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=28&pictureid=356


Regards

Tom

Wendy,

Here is the English translation for you and also for any other members who may be interested.

Regards
Tom

 

It goes back to the same thing, no recognition of service in Greece and Crete 1941, apart from the Greek Government. The BGov doesn’t recognise defeats.

 

Sorry Spider. I do not know the procedure for the award of Battle Honours, but I suspect that the regiment had to apply for the ones they thought they should have, and the Battle Honours Committee (or whatever it was called) would examine the evidence and award the honour, or not.

What I do know is that the battle honours of Greece 1941, Crete, and Greece 1944/45 all exist and that some regiments were awarded them, including Greece 1941 for RTR, so the British Government does recognise hard fought defeats.

Chris

 

Tom, thanks for the translation. Now after all these years I know what my Grandfather's scroll says!

 

Wendy,

Glad to be of help.

Regards
Tom