Barrow in Furness Anti Aircraft gun group photo

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Ian Chadwick, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Ian Chadwick

    Ian Chadwick Member

    Hi,
    I have been researching a chap called Ernest Farrer LAIDMAN who was born in 1892 and lived in the Ulverston, Dalton and Barrow in Furness areas. I have his Territorial Efficiency Medal awarded in 1934, WW2 Defence Medal and a WW1 Silver Wound Badge.

    LAIDMAN joined the 4th Kings Own Royal Lancashire Regt TF in 1912 and was embodied for war service in August 1914. He did not serve in a war theatre being discharged as medically unfit in February 1915 and being awarded a SWB. Post WW1 he re-attested into the 4th Kings Own Royal Regt (Lancaster) TA in 1922 and served as a CQMS and CSM until he was discharged due to age in March 1937.

    There is a further set of TA Reserve attestation papers for Ernest Farrer Laidman, which record that he attested into 101st L A A Bty Royal Artillery at Barrow on the 21st December 1938 aged 46 years. The service papers show he was promoted to Sgt on the 10th February 1939 but this entry has been crossed out. He attended annual camp for 9 days in 1939 and was discharged on the 5th January 1940 his services no longer required on reorganisation.

    I have over 20 postcard photographs of LAIDMAN mostly covering his service from 1912 to 1937 with the 4th Kings Own. There are however 2 photographs, which appear to have been taken during WW2. One photo is of a group taken with what looks like an anti aircraft gun in which LAIDMAN is the Sgt holding a shell. The second shows LAIDMAN as a WOII. During my research I have found a reference from his son that LAIDMAN served with the Home Guard during WW2 as Sgt Major and later a Lieut.

    I have not been able to find much about the 101st LAA Bty RA and would be interested if any member could add any information or have any observations to make from the photographs.

    Many thanks
    Ian
    Barrow Anti Aircraft group c1940 copy.jpeg

    E F Laidman c1940 copy.jpeg
     
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  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    For info

    UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920
    Name: Ernest Farrar Laidman
    Discharge Unit: K.O.R.L.
    Regiment: King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment
    Regimental Number: 4/1539
    Rank: Private
    Badge Number: 520432
    Piece: 3083
    List Number: H 3201/2-3515/2
    Record Group: WO
    Record Class: 329
    wo329_3083-00252.jpg

    British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
    Name: Emest Farrar Laidman
    Regiment or Corps: King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment
    Regimental Number: 4/1539
    30850_A000920-01817.jpg

    TD
     
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  3. Ian Chadwick

    Ian Chadwick Member

    Thanks TD I have got copies of those and also obtained copies of his service papers from MOD but unfortunately they do not include his Territorial Force or Home Guard service. I did not include his full research to date as I did not want to make the post too long but I will add it just incase it is of interest.

    Ernest Farrer LAIDMAN

    Defence Medal 1939/45 - Unnamed

    Efficiency Medal (T) GV – 3704554 C Sjt E F Laidman 4 Kings Own R

    Silver War Badge – Reverse polished and number removed


    Kings Own shooting medals;

    1925 Gradwell Cup – CQMS E F Laidman (silver)

    1927 Gradwell Cup 2nd – CQMS E F Laidman (bronze)

    1930 Gradwell Cup – CQMS E F Laidman (silver)

    1933 Hunt Cup No 1 winners – HQ wing CQMS E F Laidman

    Territorial Army Rifle Association shooting medal;

    1930 Individual shoot – CQMS E F Laidman (silver)

    ID Disc – 3704554 BQMS E F Laidman C of E

    Ernest Farrer Laidman was born in 1892 and his birth was registered in Ulverston, Lancashire during the second quarter of that year. Christening records show that he was christened on the 15th May 1892 in Dalton in Furness, Lancashire and his parents are recorded as Thomas and Rachel Laidman.

    The 1901 census shows Ernest F Laidman aged 9 living with his mother Rachel Brown aged 36 and step father Edward Brown aged 26 and sister Emily J Laidman aged 11 at 1 Hall Street, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire.

    The 1911 census shows Ernest Farrer Laidman aged 19 living at the gas works, Dalton in Furness, Lancashire with his mother and stepfather, sister Emily Jane Laidman aged 21, step grandfather Edward John Brown (head of household) aged 60, grandmother Eleanor Jane Farrer aged 68 and step uncle Thomas Brown aged 25. His occupation is recorded as clerk, shipbuilding. Edward John Brown is shown as being the manager of the gas works.

    Ernest F Laidman married Eleanor E Townson in 1918 and their marriage was registered in Ulverston during the second quarter of that year.

    The 1921 electoral roll for 1921 shows Ernest Farrer Laidman living at 18 Market Street, Dalton in Furness with his mother and step father and the 1925 electoral roll for Ulverston shows him living at 90 North Lonsdale Road, Ulverston with his wife Eleanor Emma Laidman.

    Ernest and Eleanor Laidman had two sons. Ronald V Laidman born in 1918 and died aged 16 in 1935, his birth and death were both registered in Ulverston and Kenneth Laidman born the 18th December 1932 and died aged 72 in 2005, his birth was registered in Ulverston and his death in Barrow in Furness.

    The 1939 National Register shows Ernest F Laidman born 29th September 1892 occupation painter and decorator residing at the power station Cavendish Park, Barrow in Furness, which was part of the shipyard on Barrow Island. It is highly likely he was there as part of the defences guarding the shipyard and Vickers factory.

    The 1939 National Register shows Eleanor E Laidman, born 18th November 1894 and Kenneth Laidman, born 18th December 1892 residing in Ulverston. The relevant page is damaged and does not show their address but other addresses on the same page are in Devonshire Road and Dale Street, Ulverston.

    Ernest Farrer Laidman of 58 Devonshire Road, Ulverston died on the 16th June 1966 in the High Carley Hospital, Pennington, Ulverston aged 74. His death was registered by his son K Laidman also of 58 Devonshire Road, Ulverston. His occupation is recorded as retired painter and decorator.

    Military service

    Ernest Farrar Laidman attested into the 4th Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regt on the 10th January 1912 and was allocated service number 1539. Photographs taken at Hornby camp in 1912 show him as a Pte and photographs taken at Denbigh camp in 1913 show him as a L/Cpl.

    He was embodied for service during WW1 but did not serve overseas and his MIC records his entitlement to a silver war badge only. His SWB roll confirms his date of enlistment as the 10th January 1912 and gives his date of discharge as being the 6th February 1915 due to being no longer physically fit for war service and confirms he did not serve overseas. He was awarded SWB number 520432.

    A blog site relating to the 4th Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment published a named group photograph of men from G Company (Dalton and Askam) taken in September 1914 at Milley Bridge Farm in Berkshire. The group includes Cpl E Laidman. Further photographs including L/Cpl and Cpl Laidman dated August 1914 record that they were taken at Waltham Sidings, Berkshire.

    On the 16th August 1914 the 1/4th Kings Own were allocated a section of the Great Western Railway to defend between Paddington and Twyford stations and they had detachments patrolling all stations, bridges and sidings 24hrs a day for the next three months. Milley Bridge and Waltham Sidings were part of the GWR line situated between Twyford and Maidenhead. Waltham Sidings closed in 1966 and the tracks were re-aligned but the disused site and service road can still be seen today.

    Copies of Ernest Farrer Laidman’s service records have been obtained from the MOD. The papers do not contain any records relating to his WW1 or pre WW1 service.

    Post WW1 he re-attested into the 4th Btn Kings Own Royal Regt (Lancaster) TA with service number 3704554 on the 24th May 1922 at Dalton in Furness, Lancashire and his address is recorded as Thornton House, Dalton in Furness. His date of birth was given as the 29th March 1892 and he was married and working as a painter. The front sheet of the attestation record also states that he served with the Norfolk Regt with service number 36784 from the 12th July 1915 to the 13th February 1919. There is no MIC or WW1 medal rolls relating to him with this number so it is likely he served at home only. An additional note on his service papers states the following: -
    Former service
    Embodied: -
    From 12/07/1915 to 08/02/1917
    From 31/01/1918 to13/02/1919

    On the 22nd July 1922 he was promoted to C/Sgt and appointed CQMS. He attended a course of instruction at the army school of military administration, Chisledon between the 13th and 27th April 1923 and obtained a satisfactory report. He also attended a course of instruction at the Depot KORR between the 2nd and 28th November 1925 and attained a satisfactory report (his collection includes an invitation to CQMS Laidman and wife from the Sgts mess Depot KORR for the 1925 New Years Eve dance). He attended every annual camp between 1922 and 1936 inclusive and was promoted WO CLII and appointed CSM on the 28th June 1934.

    He was discharged on the 28th March 1937 having reached the age for discharge. His total service is recorded as 14 years and 308 days and was awarded the Efficiency Medal (T) in Army Orders of November 1934.

    There is a further set of TA Reserve attestation papers for Ernest Farrer Laidman, which record that he attested into 101st L A A Bty Royal Artillery at Barrow on the 21st December 1938 aged 46 years. His address at the time was given as 58 Devonshire Road, Ulverston, Lancashire. He retained his service number 3704554.

    The service papers show he was promoted to Sgt on the 10th February 1939 but this entry has been crossed out. He attended annual camp for 9 days in 1939 and was discharged on the 5th January 1940 his services no longer required on reorganisation. He served at home from the 21st December 1938 to the 5th January 1940 a total of 1 year and 16 days.

    It appears that Ernest Laidman then served with a Royal Artillery Anti Aircraft coastal defence unit during WW2 and more than likely as a member of the Home Guard. Two WW2 period photographs show him as a Sgt and Battery Sergeant Major. He would have served for a minimum of three years in order to qualify for the Defence Medal.

    Additional info
    The following information relating to Ernest Farrer Laidman was found on a website relating to the Laidman family.

    Ken Laidman remembers his father as being about 5 ft 11 in (180 cm) tall, always well dressed and, in his younger days, dark-haired.
    When a very young man, Ernie learned to speak Russian through his friendship with engineering students from Russia who had been sent to the Barrow-in-Furness shipyards to learn how to build warships. He could still converse in Russian in the 1950s.
    While his occupation was that of a painter and decorator, Ernie had a continuing military commitment, first as a soldier in the British Army during WWI, then as a reservist in the Territorial Army and finally with the Royal Artillery during WWII.
    He was a crack rifleman, winning many medals for shooting. (His wife Eleanor boasted that she never needed to buy a fowl for Christmas because she could count on Ernie to win one at the Territorial Army Christmas Shoot).
    Though officially too old (nearly 50) for active service, Ernie's WWII posting was to Barrow-in-Furness as an anti-aircraft artilleryman to defend the Vickers-Armstrong shipyard where submarines were being built. He was soon promoted to Warrant Officer and subsequently to Lieutenant - that is, 'full' lieutenant rank, having earlier refused promotion to Second Lieutenant on the grounds that such rank was 'a sergeant's hand-rag'!
    A keen and accomplished footballer, Ernie played soccer with the 'Dalton Casuals' before moving to Ulverston (at the time of his marriage) where he helped form a local team.
    [Information supplied by his son Ken Laidman by letter to William Robert Lyon Laidman 19 Sep 2004].

    Thanks for reading and I will add some more pics shortly,
    Ian
     
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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Ian it is very interesting and thank you for posting

    regards
    Clive
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Ian

    I added those just for general info, I guessed from your post that you seem well organised, and also understand the difficulty in posting small or large amounts of detail as it can fog the issue sometimes.

    Have you applied for his Home Guard records? - Request Home Guard service records it is often forgotten that they are available

    TD
     
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  6. Ian Chadwick

    Ian Chadwick Member

    Hi TD,

    Many thanks for the link that is really useful I did not know you could apply separately to the MOD for Home Guard papers so it's nice to have another avenue to go down.

    Here are some additional pics.
    E F Laidman Medals.JPG
    E F Laidman dog tag.jpg
    E F Laidman front left 1912.jpg
    E F Laidman standing 2nd left 1914.jpg
    E F Laidman standing left 1914.jpg
    E F Laidman standing right 1914.jpg
    E F Laidman seated right 1922.jpg
    Ernest Farrer Laidman copy 2.jpeg
     

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