Bagpipers

Discussion in 'General' started by soren1941, Aug 5, 2008.

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  1. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    A truly wonderful Thread with lots of excellent information and photographs posted.
    Thanks to all for sharing them.

    Tom
     
  2. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    I guess those noisy bags are stronger than I figured. Thanks Owen.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    From The History Of The 51st Highland Division 1939 1945.
    Mentions Private Duncan McIntyre of 5 Black Watch killed at El Alamein.

    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    His entry lists him as 'Son of Duncan and Flora McIntyre. Professional Piper.'

    Name:McINTYRE, DUNCAN
    Initials D
    Nationality:United Kingdom
    Rank:Private
    Regiment/Service:Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
    Unit Text:5th Bn.
    Age:28
    Date of Death:25/10/1942
    Service No:2766882
    Awards:Mentioned in Despatches
    Additional information:Son of Duncan and Flora McIntyre. Professional Piper.
    Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference:V. B. 23.
    Cemetery:EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY



    [​IMG]
     
  4. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    From My Fathers memories of Alamein;
    "All I can remember is the noise and dust and screams and, our ever-faithful Pipes. The group that I was with acted as a cover for the engineers making vehicle gaps through the enemy minefield. .............."

    And the crossing of the Rhine, "Each company had a piper playing them across........"
     
  5. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Thanks Adam, for the links.

    So, the Army issued orders that pipes were not to be played. Did this order persist through the remainder of the European campaign?

    Brian, I read with interest your memories.

    I am confounded that the Germans did not recognize the Pipers for boost to morale they would provide and target them specifically. But then, there are sparse records of them intentionally targeting other, similar targets, such as medics.


    SD,
    The English have been trying to ban pipes for long a time, Why would the Scot's take a blind bit of notice now.

    Kev
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Can I also mention that the Gurkha's play the bagpipes today so there is a possibility they too played during the war.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Back to El Alamein, from Div History,

    the 7th Argylls attacked with C and D Companies leading , their pipers playing 'Monymusk'

    B and C Companies of the Camerons advanced to the tune of 'The Inverness Gathering' played by their pipers, one of them, Pipe-Corporal Campbell , bearded like the pipers of old.

    (Richard, have you got a picture of him?)
     
    Slipdigit likes this.
  8. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Sorry no pic only this from Camerons history.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    From The History Of The 51st Highland Division 1939 1945.
    Mentions Private Duncan McIntyre of 5 Black Watch killed at El Alamein.

    CWGC :: Casualty Details

    His entry lists him as 'Son of Duncan and Flora McIntyre. Professional Piper.'

    Name:McINTYRE, DUNCAN
    Initials D
    Nationality:United Kingdom
    Rank:Private
    Regiment/Service:Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
    Unit Text:5th Bn.
    Age:28
    Date of Death:25/10/1942
    Service No:2766882
    Awards:Mentioned in Despatches
    Additional information:Son of Duncan and Flora McIntyre. Professional Piper.
    Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference:V. B. 23.
    Cemetery:EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY




    Thanks Owen.
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Reading of the 7th Argyll's playing "Monymusk" at El Alamein reminds me of my Liap 28days leave from Austria in '46 when I and my sister were invited to spend a few days in Aberdeenshire with the Gordon family - they had a farm and we were well fed and entertained with a visit to the nearest town - it was called Monymusk !

    Cheers
     
  11. adelphi08

    adelphi08 Junior Member

    Bill Millin was Lord Lovat's piper. And he played himself in the film ' The Longest Day'.
    And i believe the only other person in the movie who played themselves was Eisenhower.
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Adelphi08
    My apologies from throwing you curves -

    but we do try and get the facts of these postings correct...if you were to study the casting list of the film " The Longest Day"...you might find that the Piper who played Bill Millin's part as Lord Lovatt's (actor Peter Lawford) piper in the movie was a Pipe Major Leslie de Laspee.......Eisenhower was played by the actor Henry Grace ...oh and Monty was played by yet another actor - Trevor Reid..

    Lord Lovatt incidently was a direct descendent of the explorer Simon Fraser who spent a great deal of time in this area where I now live, which is called the Fraser Valley in which the mighty Fraser River runs through and occasionaly floods !

    Which Simon Fraser found and traced from it's beginnings in the Rocky Mountains to near the Pacific Ocean which is now the metropolitan areas of new Westminster and Vancouver.
    Just thought you would like to know that ....
    Cheers


    Cheers
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Here's a rather splendid painting I found of them whilst trying to find info on Gurkha pipers earlier tonight.
    [​IMG]

    Sorry Sapper......No Engineers leaning against the bridge having a brew :D (I like that image better for the record)
     
  14. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew -
    you have no need to look futher than the Edinburgh Tattoo as the Ghurka's are invariably invited to participate in the massed Pipes and Drums ...
    cheers
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers Tom,

    Yeah and good they are too.....I ment to say during WW2 :)
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  17. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    owen -



    couldn't hear it as my sound etc is a bit kerfluii - so I'll save it and hear it when it's all fixed.
    Cheers
     
  18. macrusk

    macrusk Proud Daughter

    From Pipers & Pipe Bands


    On the eve of the Second World War, the special list for Warrant Officers showed that, in 1939, there were 16 Pipe Bands and 18 Pipe Majors on the Militia rolls. Many of the pipe majors had served in the Canadian Expeditionary Force in the First World War.

    The history of the pipe bands and pipers during the Second World War is interwoven with the military bands. At the outbreak of the war none of the Non Permanent Active Militia (NPAM) units mobilized for the 1st and 2nd Divisions were authorized to enlist bands although Highland Regiments were permitted to take six pipers overseas. The number of pipers however, who were unofficially on the rolls during the initial stages, was considerably higher because most of the highland units configured their company staffing list extensively with platoon medical orderlies or clerks who were also pipers.

    A carry over from the First World War was the damaging Kings Regulations (Canadian) which stated that bandsmen and pipers will be trained as stretcher bearers and in first aid to the wounded. In this type of battle conditions pipers were subject to not only sniper fire but also intense machine gun fire. Highland units experienced several losses from among their cadre of pipers and were fortunate that the casualties were not more serious.

    The raid by the Second Division on the resort town of Dieppe on August 19th, 1942, has been considered by some historians a dismal military failure. Other military strategists declared the raid a partial success because it purchased a valuable experience for use later by the Allies.

    Nevertheless, there were 851 Canadian lives lost and 1,944 men who surrendered spent the three years in captivity. Five of the nineteen Canadian units who hit the beach at Dieppe were Highland units. The arrival of the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada is described in the Canadian War Museum Historical Publication "Canada at Dieppe" by Mr T. Murray Hunter and dramatically illustrates the precarious nature of military piping:
    "Meanwhile, Lt Gostling had decided to postpone the Cameron's' landing ten minutes in order to give the Saskatchewans more time to clear the bridgehead through which the battalion was to pass. Navigational errors contributed to the delay when, a full 30 minutes late, the landing craft reached "Green Beach" led by a piper playing in full view of the enemy. The Commanding Officer, who encouraged his men on the run in, was killed as he leaped out on the shingle."

    The Essex Scottish of Windsor and Chatham, had the misfortune of losing two pipers at Dieppe despite the fact that pipers of that regiment had been restricted to general duties in the rear areas. Other Highland units, such as the Black Watch, suffered casualties among their pipers or were incarcerated by the Germans for the balance of the war. After this debacle, units that had pipers found it advisable to hold them as much as possible out of forward areas. The Cape Breton Highlanders kept their pipers looking after stores in their "B" Echelon. The Irish Regiment of Canada had their pipers handling baggage in the rear or had them as general duty personnel. The consensus was that the medical orderlies and stretcher bearers were easier to come by than pipers.

    After VE Day, units of the Canadian Army Occupation Force were to have their own pipe bands. However, with the last Corps bands being disbanded in March, 1945, a new approach to raising pipe bands was necessary.

    Postscript:

    Found this about the Calgary Highlanders Regimental Pipes and Drums

    During the Second World War, two pipe bands were in existence, one for each battalion of the regiment. Members of the 1st Battalion Pipe Band were trained soldiers. At Hill 67, pipers were assigned to each of the four rifle companies and played the battalion into their first combat action in Normandy - the first and only time in the war they were permitted to do so.[4]
    In 1945, the Calgary Highlanders reverted to a one-battalion Militia unit again. The Pipes and Drums continued their role of support to regimental functions, recruiting, and after the reorganizations of Unification of the three services in 1968, became a separate unit of the Canadian Forces
     
  19. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Re-enactment of El Alamein but, the Barrage soundtrack is allegedly from a BBC recording. Gives you a bit of insight into what it was like to be introduced to your first major battle. Don't think the piper would have been playing "The Black Bear" though.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Many of these films are absolute rubbish. To say they are based on history? Then it is applied very loosely indeed.
    One thing is for sure, No one in the media wants to spoil the story with the Sappers already there.
    The Royal Engineers "First in Last out"
    BY the way no Gurkha's were present in the North West Europe conflict.
    And while on the subject of the Gurkha's, it is well to point out that very few of them serve in the British army while 40,000 of them serve in others armies.

    They are not now. Nor ever have been anything other than mercenaries. Willing to ser4ve anywhere where the pay is good.
     

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