B Sqn 3 RTR 18th July 1944

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by gash hand, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As you were asking about events on that day I thought it best to edit the date into the thread title.
    gash hand likes this.
  2. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    This is the area on Aug 4th. Bottom centre is Hubert Folie. Right-edge is Soliers and left is Bras GOODWOOD air view (1) 3125 Four-La Poirier-Bourguebous   .jpg
  3. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    We tried to do it, thank you so much Owen, for rescuing us, Sheila and Richards
  4. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the aerial reconnaissance photograph, could you tell us how we could obtain a copy, and also as you are conversant with this subject,
    you may possibly know where we could obtain a battlefield map GSGS4347 Caen sheet 40/16SW. 1:25.000 Map France. March '44. The reason we ask is
    this map would be useful, given its large scale, for identifying the initial battlefield burials which took place at Hubert Folie using the grid references given in
    the original battlefield documents held by CWGC, given that, we are aware of Battlefield Historian and Mc Master University but note people have expressed
    problems with these two, also British Library have unfortunately never seen a reason to digitise this particular map. Could you offer any suggestions please.
    Thank you m kenny. sheila and Richard
  5. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    this a link to the IGN 1947 view. Clicking on the yellow dots open the air view in a new window and clicking 'telecharger gratuitement' at top right downloads a jpg2 copy Remonter le temps
  6. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  7. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Thank you m kenny for info, we have followed your instructions and have successfully downloaded the images and screenshots. 1947 and 1944 as suggested.
    you boffins are the greatest sheila and richard :)
  8. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Goodwood Staff Report post by m kenny 2017

    We read with great interest the post left for another member in 2017 re the Goodwood Staff Report, our interest is very similar to the previous member, could you confirm/clarify the mentioned report has anything to do with the BAOR Battlefield Staff College Tours take took place some years ago, if so, do you have any knowledge of any available documents from them.

    Also connected with this, the Staff College moved to Shrivenham, they have a number of libraries there, one being Hobson Library, to your knowledge, do they hold any Goodwood Battlefield reviews about 3RTR giving final tank positions on the 18th July '44, which Staff Officers later produced.
    Do you know if those libraries as Shrivenham respond to requests from the members of Public
    Thank you Sheila and Richard
  9. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Bovington Archive
    At some point in the future we want to visit Bovington archive, as this is a round trip of approx 600 miles, could anyone tell us if they have an easy access cataloging system or a more random time consuming system. The system they have in place would determine the length of our stay in the Dorset area. Thank you Shei
  10. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Hello Sheila and Richard,

    The Battlefield Tour Guide for Goodwood is still available from MRLS Books I believe (link below): be sure to get the maps with it.

    Operation Goodwood :: Military Library Research Service

    Another book I can recommend is Operation Goodwood by the late Ian Daglish who was a wargaming friend of mine. He treats the battle with a lot of aerial photographs and a clinical view and also has a section at the back that has recommendations for a Battlefield Tour. A Squadron's account of the battle is fairly well described because of Bill Close's various writings but B Squadron less so. These two squadrons lead the attack by 3 RTR during the initial phase of Goodwood on the 17th July.

    Kind regards,

  11. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    I understand the Archive is currently closed because of Covid19.

    When it reopens, and assuming the arrangements stay the same, you must:
    1. Phone them to make an appointment to visit. No appointment, no access!
    2. They will ask you for a general idea of what you want to research so they can get some of the files out as soon as you arrive.
    3. Very important to realise that they are not a 'library with bookshelves for you to browse': you tell them what you want and they bring it to you. That sounds quite daunting because 'if you don't know what they've got how can you ask for it'. It does work well and they are very helpful.
    4. You will either find nothing....or run out of time and need to visit again. The latter normally applies!
    5. Enjoy!
  12. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian Patron

    I think you can order digital copies of the RTR regimental war diaries.

    Also they offer scanning and photocopy services and you can arrange this by email.
  13. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Brilliant advice thank you so much SDP seems like a visit would better planned for 2021 if we are spared that is! It would probably be in our interest to book a hotel for a week to take full advantage of whats on offer there. I have spoken with a lady named Valerie and David Willey in the past and found them to be very helpful. Thanks Sheila
  14. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Thank you Chris C We have already bought the RTR regimental war diaries and tracer card etc from them about a year or so ago, people there are very helpful. Thanks Sheila
    Chris C likes this.
  15. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Hello Will Thank you For the above information, while we already have a hard copy of Operation Goodwood by the late Ian Daglish, in fact another quick look at our book shelf tells me we have 2 copies! obviously we didn't believe it the first time! We will certainly look into your other suggestion thank you for your help Sheila and Richard
  16. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Ranville War Cemetery. Calvados. Normandy
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  17. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    We know 3rd RTR unit colour is Brunswick Green. In Normandy 1944 regarding that units squadron markings, would I be right in believing that A squadron tank markings were a red triangle, B squadron a yellow square and C squadron a blue circle (not talking cement here) possibly all followed with a tank number and possibly a name?

    Secondly, would anyone have any idea what B squadron's unit radio call signs which they used, for example, 61, 62, 63 and so on ? Specifically, regarding Tank Commander Sergeant Eric Whittaker Sherman Firefly tank B squadron?

    Any other information gratefully received, ( we are already aware of Pendulum of battle) Thank you.

    Thank you all so much for your consideration. She:D
  18. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Unit colour has nothing,to do with tank markings. At that time, all 3RTR Squadrons carried yellow markings - it's a function of their 'place' in the Brigade.
    HQ diamond
    A Triangle
    B Square
    C Circle

    The call sign was Squadron - Troop - Tank
    Whittaker's tank call sign would have been Baker - ? - Baker where Baker indicates B Squadron - don't know his Troop therefore the ? - Baker (the Troop Sergeants Tank was the 'second tank in the Troop' so hence Baker.
    All tanks had a War Department 'T' number and all 3RTR tanks had a name beginning with C (because C is the third letter of the alphabet - 3 as in 3RTR). I hope that makes sense.
    gash hand likes this.
  19. S54

    S54 Junior Member

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  20. gash hand

    gash hand Well-Known Member

    Thank you SDP that is very interesting information, yes, it does make sense, many thanks. She

    PS. Am I correct in thinking that after the war, probably in connection with NATO, the whole phonetic alphabet was re-assessed and a certain number of letters as for example Baker became Bravo ? thank you She

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