Australian Plan to allow women to undertake combat roles

Defence to clear way for women to serve in front-line combat roles

• Ian McPhedran with AAP
• From: AAP, Herald Sun
• April 11, 2011 12:00AM

UPDATE 4.55pm: DEFENCE Minister Stephen Smith has suggested gender will no longer play a role in selecting front-line combat forces.

Mr Smith said the chief of the defence force would bring forward a plan to allow women to undertake combat roles.
The plan was first flagged in 2001 as part of a scheme to get more women into senior ranks. It was again promoted by former defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon in 2008 to bring about "cultural change" in the ADF.
"When it comes to women in the ADF, including in combat roles, an opportunity for women should be determined on the basis of physical and intellectual capacity, not on gender," Mr Smith said.
"So the chief of the defence force will bring forward that matter as a matter of priority."
Currently, women are excluded from such roles as clearance diving teams, infantry, armour, artillery, combat engineers and airfield defence guards.

 

I'm assuming this is Australia? You haven't added a link so I don't know where its from?

ADF = Austrian Defence Force, Azerbaijan Defence Force, Afghanistan Defence Force, Australian Defence Force etc?

 

I think its the Alice Springs Defence Force they breed em tough in the centre of OZ

 

Combat roles offered to women | The Australian

 

ADF = Austrian Defence Force, Azerbaijan Defence Force, Afghanistan Defence Force, Australian Defence Force etc?

Defence Minister Stephen Smith............seems to work with Australian Defence Force, unless there are Afghanis called Smith

 

I think it will be a good thing and is about time, however the article in the above link states

[/QUOTE]No date was set for achieving the fast-tracked timetable"
[/QUOTE]


It also appears to be a 'reaction; to the current and on going long list of troubles with the way women are and have been treated in the Australian Defence Force.
The current troubles are due to a male Officer Cadet soldier setting up a Skype connection so his six (6) Officer Cadet mates could watch him and a female Officer Cadet having sex. Naturally the woman did not know this was happening. The result is several different enquires including a direct inquiry by the sexual discrimination people who will apparently have close to unlimited access to anything/anyone they ask for.

The Officer Cadet culprits have not yet been disciplined when IMHO they should be up on a Court Marshall. They also quite probably will be placed under a number civilian charges, primarily for breaking several privacy rules which have the penalty of a year or two in a jail.
According to Mondays Melbourne's Herald Sun newspaper the female has been forced out on compassionate leave while the males are all on campus still attending their classes. The ADFA is also being accused that they mislead Govt in several reports about these types of activities. Cadets have been told many times over the years that their careers will end if they speak out.

[/QUOTE]Mr Payne VC said that aside from the demanding physical requirements of combat infantry, a big concern for commanders would be responding to women wounded in action or captured.[/QUOTE]

They will not send a women into combat if they have any doubt on her ability to do the job, just as they do not send men in who are not capable of doing the job. The women will not be ignorant to what could happen on a battle field or what could happen if captured.

[/QUOTE]"If you're in a tight situation and one of the ladies goes down - and one of the blokes stops to pick her up - then that is the wrong thing to do," he said. "You're priority is to fight your way through to the bloody objective and then you come back and look after the casualties later.[/QUOTE]

Why would a trained professional soldier do this? Most especially as the women would of been members of the Ptn/Section for quite some time before they went into combat and thus all would/should be trained to take out the enemy before worrying about their wounded comrades also this is why we have specialised medics.

[/QUOTE]Mr Payne, who earned his VC in 1969 for gallantry in Vietnam, said he had enormous respect for Vietnamese women combatants, who served with distinction in combat units. But he added: "I'm old Victorian era. I don't think it's a place for women doing frontline duty."[/QUOTE]

This is common and understood thought process, however it is not practical in 2011

Mr Keith Payne VC saw combat service in Korea, (same age and Coy as my dad, and where during Operation Fauna he was apparently one of the first men of the small snatch group to jump into a deep Chinese trench at night in order to take a POW). He also saw service in Malaya(?) Viet Nam and in the Gulf area fighting for one of the Kings or Princes during the 1970's.

 

Never realised that the ADF didn't allow women on the frontline. Looking at some of them they're probably tougher than some of the men! I think it's a good thing, we're all for equality.

 

They have enough problems with the males in combat units/zones and now they want to create another dilemma.

 

Combat 'too dangerous' for female soldiers - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

Afghans attack Australia's plan for frontline female soldiers


Created: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:26:36 GMT+1000





Last Updated: 5 hours 13 minutes ago

Senior political figures in Afghanistan have attacked Australia's proposal to lift the ban on female soldiers fighting on the front line.

Some Islamic leaders have strongly criticised the plan, saying Australian female soldiers would be targeted by the Taliban.

Several countries including Canada have female soldiers serving on the frontline.

Islamic leader, Ahmad Sha Ahmadzia, says there must be something wrong with Australian men if the government is willing to send in female soldiers.

"They cannot fight good or they are tired of fighting? Yes, this is question posing to Australian government," he said.

"What's wrong with your men?"

But Shinkai Karokhail, an Afghan Member of Parliament, says strong female troops could help change prevalent attitudes about women in Afghanistan.

"This is also how to change the mentality of Afghan men, because we can make them more civilised," she said.

"They will understand if they give a chance to their own daughter and the women of Afghanistan, they could do a lot the way women of other countries do."

Radio Australia News

 

If they pass all the test then why not, I rather they got their heads shot off than me and if they want equality then why not

 

What a daft i9dea.... Women in conflict? Must be barmy to ever contemplate the mover....

The last thing I would want when I went into action, was a women alongside me. The mind boggles.... have these people that talk about women in action (pardon the pun) ever stopped to think what it is like to advance into a hail of fire..? The mind boggles..

 

I believe that the Israeli Defence Force used women in the front line for some time but have since gone back on using them in active combat. The reason being the gallantry factor. Male soldiers would attend to the needs of wounded women or women soldiers in trouble at the expense of achieving the military objective.

Maybe the Australian male will prove less chivalrous - doubt the Afghans would care.

 

The British male is not going to let a women suffer without going to her aid....... In action you do not stop for the wounded, or dying, that is for the medics.
,
Now can you imagine the fiasco of men trying to help, when they hear the anguished cries of a wounded young woman.... Wake up at the back....

 

They still have not put any time table on this.
As I have mentioned I reckon it is just a reaction to the current and long happening problems within the ADF and Army in particular on the way the women are treated.
It quite possible that it is only talk to appease women and that it will not go ahead for many years to come if at all.
As has already been mentioned twice in this thread they have medics for the wounded. I doubt their would be more than a dozen or so at most who would be accepted over the next few years if (and it's a big IF) they are eventually allowed.
They also would be spread out through the Btns and by the time they are ready for any deployment they and the males would be trained for such happenings. Personally if they prove themselves capable then why not. Any male who is stupid enough in a fire fight to stop advancing and look after a wounded woman would probably be removed from the unit, if they survive.
And the talk of them being eligible for Commando and SASR Regts is just talk, this will take many, many more years longer than placing them in the Btns will take.

 

Some of you lot are living in the dark ages. Women in the British Army are serving on the frontline in Afghanistan as you sleep in your warm comfortable beds tonight including one of my friends.

I served in Iraq on the frontline with females and they were just as capable at doing the job as their male counter part, even shitting, showering, pissing and doing their washing with the lads-No special measures.

Before you take the piss anymore I suggest you might wish to look through this thread at these three girls for starters:

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/postwar/20380-post-war-british-gallantry-awards-1945-present.html


Michelle Norris MC, RAMC



Medical Assistant Kate Louise Nesbitt MC, Royal Navy


L/Cpl Sarah Bushbye MC, RAMC


Any forum members got a Military Cross?


I didn't think so -_-

 

Drew,

I don't think anyone is making disparaging assertions on what they are trained for.