Good morning, I am trying to find more info on the story and fate of the 3rd Light Anti-Aircraft Battery, Royal Australian Artillery, 1st Australian Corps. The reason of this search is very simple. Among the crewmen of the battery there were three prisoners of my list: Bombardier VX32995 Thomas Watson Russell Gunner VX32728 Ernest Baden Preiser Gunner VX47958 William Francis (Bill) Waller They all escaped from the Camp PG106 (Vercelli) and entered Switzerland on October 6, 1943, in a 15 former prisoners' roped party. They had to climb at more than 4000 meters and this is the main reason of my search. I am still trying to contact Russell and Preiser's families but I am not so optimistic. In absence of every possible information, and since the most part of my prisoners came from Tobruk, I supposed they were all captured at the fall of Tobruk on June 21, 1942. This also because the anti-aircraft artilleries were usually placed in the rear, with the exception of the AA guns used against tanks and enemy personnel as the 88s. Therefore I started looking for detailed info on the A/A defences of the town, and I was reading the excellent Lyman's "Tobruk. The Longest Siege" about that. But today I received an e-mail from Waller's family and it would seem that Bill Waller was captured on May first, 1941. If so, it would be quite probable that his two fellow comrades shared his same experience. It's quite strange. The family told me they were reading the NAA file for Waller, but it's currently unavailable with this strange explanation: "33(1)(g) Information or matter the disclosure of which under this Act would involve the unreasonable disclosure of information relating to the personal affairs of any person (including a deceased person)." (?) Thank you for your kind opinion and assistance, Marco
Hi That is strange, they only did that - 01 May 2013?? Russell is open, but not online and no restrictions? Preiser has not been opened. Here is a picture of the regiment from AWm - http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P01253.002 also from here - http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/AJRP/AJRP2.nsf/5c2a7f65120f209aca256b6d0020a228/29731fa039ee799eca256632001f3277?OpenDocument there is a book published on it- Rae, C.J.E., et al., On target: the story of the 2/3rd Australian Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Victoria: 2/3rd Australian Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Association, 1987. that may give you some answers regards Robert
Thanks indeed dear Robert, Very interesting links. I will try to find a copy of that book - I am checking now for its availability and found a copy on Abebooks, but it would cost 206 USD...! Moreover, I would only need the few pages related to the first day of May, 1941 (and possibly to the end of April, of course). I also found this website and will immediately submit a request: http://www.antiaircraft.org.au/ Concerning the missing NAA file, it's very strange. I have all my notes at home and therefore don't remember if I paid for Waller's record (as I am quite sure), but surely I read these documents and the Waller's family, too. I bought about 25 records in the last years and never noticed this restriction. I'll buy Preiser and Russell's records as soon as I'll receive the next wage! Very kind regards, Marco EDIT: Just found a direct reference to Bill Waller here: http://www.antiaircraft.org.au/images/stories/on-target/7th-Battery-Recollections-and-Escapes.pdf I have been kindly suggested to read this excellent book by the Association's staff.
HI Great story, but it doesn't answer your original question although it does mention the three you are after. I will be interested to see what you come up with. regards Robert
Hello Robert, You absolutely right. It seems the battery was placed in Crete and, with further readings, I hope I'll confirm that.
I am looking through the download from the association's website - http://antiaircraft.org.au/about-us/on-target/on-target and I thought that one way to get more info on the time that Russell / Waller / Preiser became POWs was to check the NAA for pers files that have been digitised for other members of their unit who also became POWs on Crete. One such file is for VX37549 Gunner ARMITAGE, LEO RODGER (who also escaped into Switzerland). That file indicates that he became a POW at the end of the Cretan campaign around the 29th of May. Personally, I think it most likely that is the date that all of the POWs from the 2/3rd Australian Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment went into the bag. His file also contains a couple of POW staements (and correspondence on his attempts to be awarded the Defence Medal). 1987, English, Book, Illustrated edition: On target : the story of the 2/3rd Australian Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment from formation on 18th July, 1940 until disbandment on 14th July, 1943, and the subsequent service of 7th Battery, 8th Battery, and 9th Battery, until the end of World War II / by C.J.E. Rae, A.L. Harris and R.K. Bryant. Rae, C. J. E.
It's quite strange. The family told me they were reading the NAA file for Waller, but it's currently unavailable with this strange explanation: "33(1)(g) Information or matter the disclosure of which under this Act would involve the unreasonable disclosure of information relating to the personal affairs of any person (including a deceased person)." (?) What is strange is that the only times I have seen similar cases of files withdrawn from public access is when it was requested by a member of the family. Normally concerning a notation of an embarrassing social disease or similar. Nobody really bothers for disciplinary notations (AWOL etc) - otherwise no Australian file would ever be accessible.
Dear Dave, Thank you for this kind explanation. And for the link to the Australian libraries. I should find the way to ask for copies of the few pages surely inherent to the time spent on the Alps, after the escape from the prison camp. I can't explain the closure of the NAA files. Marco
Pardon the intrusion, gents. This is something I have noticed as well. I spend a lot of time, both here and elsewhere, advising relatives of the goodies available on the naa website. Quite a few families are not happy to learn that their loved ones files will be open to all once they are digitized. Their choice, I suppose, but now we see what happens. As DaveB mentions there is rarely anything greater than a social disease but I do recall one where one airman was sleeping with the wife of another. I make a note of which files and when they are put online I download them immediately. And then there is the lovely lady from Melbourne whose dad was declared LMF (Lack of Moral Fibre) and shipped off home in 1944. Dad successfully fought the RAAF and had his name and reputation restored. She had no problem with the file being online. Regards, Dave
..No intrusion, you're really welcome, Dave! Thank you for your kind contribution. I "freed" many records on the NAA and never realised that families could ask to close, or to hide them. Of course I agree on their full right to protect their intimacy, even if for a historian this represents a serious problem...! Moreover, this is a kind of ethic problem I have to think about. Should I report this closure and its possible causes on my book, or not? I don't want to give a fake or not-completely-loyal and clear image of the soldier to the readers, especially when I am not aware of the reasons of the closure.
Hi Marco, I would certainly question it with the naa authorities. Even if you didn't pay for it. If you did pay for it I would complain. After all, the family obtained info paid for by you. Good deal for them, no? You are not looking to invade this family's privacy. All you want are the pages relating to his time in your area of research. If he had some social disease I am sure 1) you could care less and 2) it would add nothing to your book. So, don't give up. Send an email and ask why? Depending on their answer there are other remedies available to obtain the info you want Regards, Dave
Thanks indeed for your kind suggestion Dave. All I need would be the date and place of Waller's capture and surely, if finding social or personal diseases, I won't mention them in my work. The problem is, there were three soldiers among my prisoners who came from that A/A Battery and they were, almost surely, captured together. Therefore every single available record could provide interesting details not only on his specific soldier, but also on the whole Battery and consequently on the two other POWs. Marco
Dear all, I am here to provide you further information concerning this topic's search. I have to thank my good friend and colleague, the researcher Katrina Kittel who visited the AWM in Canberra and copied for me the 10% of this very very very rare book, Go There-You Die, written in 1989 by former Gunner William Francis Waller. From the Captivity chapter and from his further references, it seems clear that: 1. Waller was captured on May 29, 1941. 2. He made sure references to a sinking, with drowning fellows. He survived paddling until saved by a MTB, surely Italian. He then spent some time on Rhodes before to become a prisoner of war in Italy. 3. There are references to the "lesson from the Hereward" and to the "Kaso" or "Kasa Strait". Katrina told me that this is the Kasos Strait while, for an incredible coincidence, I was reading from the book On Target about the HMS Hereward herself. Therefore, even if I am still reading both the books and will have to deepen the fact on The Fall of Crete by Alan Clark (pp. 174-175), as well as here, http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awmohww2/army/vol2/awmohww2-army-vol2-ch13.pdf (pp. 13-14), I am quite inclined towards this possible hypothesis: Bill Waller evacuated Heraklion on the Royal Navy force composed by HMS Dido, Orion and Ajax as well as by HMS Hasty, Hotspur, Havoc, Hereward, Imperial and Jackal. He was on the Hereward, probably together with his other two fellows of the 3rd Light AA Battery, Preiser and Russell. These last were taken prisoners on his same day. Then the Hereward was hit and, according to the above cited source (Gavin Long, Australia in the War of 1939-1945. Series 1, Army, Vol. II, Greece, Crete and Syria, Australian War Memorial, 1953) beached. Instead, other sources confirm that the ship sunk and that only 89 survivors had been rescued by an Italian MAS boat. I hope I'll be able to provide you further, and more detailed info as soon as possible - I'll spend this afternoon and the following night on these fascinating sources. I was quite sure they became prisoners of war in Crete, but I had never assumed after a sinking. Marco
Here is a summary for the service of 2/3rd Light AA Regiment, RAA. Although the thread says 2/3rd Light AA Battery, I think it means 'regiment' since the 3rd Light AA Battery was part of the 2/1st Light AA Regiment, RAA, which did not leave Australia until June 1941 while still a Heavy AA Regiment: 2/3rd Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RAA Raised May 1940? in New South Wales Batteries 7th, 8th, 9th Light AA Batteries The regiment arrived in Egypt at the end of January 1941. A week later 8th Battery moved to Tobruk under command of 4th British AA Brigade with detachements spread from Benghazi to Tobruk. It withdrew from Tobruk in September 1941 with 9th Division. 7th Battery was sent to Crete to form part of the anti-aircraft defence of the island on 22 April 1941. The battery served on Crete during the invasion from 20 May to 1 June 1941. 8th and 9th Batteries were involved in the withdrawal to Tobruk in March and April 1941. 9th Battery remained outside Tobruk and served under 22nd Guards Brigade Group in the Battleaxe offensive on 15-17 June 1941. The regiment moved to Palestine by July 1941, except for 8th Battery which joined later. It served under 1st Australian AA Brigade in Palestine from July 1941. It was involved in the Syrian Campaign in June and July under 7th Australian Division. After the invasion it served in Tripoli in Lebanon under 1st Australian AA Brigade until February 1942, when it returned to Australia. 9th Battery served under 2nd AA Brigade at Suez in October 1941. On arrival the regiment was deployed in Fremantle, Western Australia by July 1942. 9th Battery was sent to Milne Bay with 18th Australian Infantry Brigade on 25 June 1942. The regiment was reformed at Milne Bay in July 1943 from 2/6th Heavy and 2/9th Light AA Batteries as 2/3rd Composite AA Regiment. It was located at Lae in October and November 1943 and returned to Australia with I Corps at the start of 1944. It then became part of 1st Base Sub-Area at Strathpine, Queensland and was located there in December 1944. The regiment served at Brunei Bay, Borneo from 10 June to 15 August 1945.
Thanks indeed Dryan. In effect I made a mistake, we are talking about the 7th Battery of the 2nd/3rd Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. This unit was under Maj. J. A. Hipworth and was composed by three batteries of 6 guns and 80 men each, Able, Baker and Charlie. Bill Waller, Ernest Baden Preiser and Thomas Watson Russell came from the 7th Battery, and this was confirmed by the regimental Association's roll, available online: http://www.antiaircraft.org.au/ From various sources, listed in my comment above, I noticed that during that evacuation the Royal Navy suffered two losses, the HMS Imperial and Hereward, while Ajax, Dido and Orion were badly damaged, too. The B Force successfully evacuated 4.000 men from Heraklion but about 800 of them were lost in the "Bomb Alley" run. According to Alan Clark's book, one of the reasons of this tragedy was the order to reduce the fleet's speed at only 15 knots to wait for HMS Hotspur, sent in rescue of the crew and soldiers of the HMS Imperial. This led the convoy to be still in the Kaso Strait, near Scarpanto, ad dawn. Now I have to find the proof that also Russell and Preiser were on board of the HMS Hereward, like Waller, and that they were among the 89 survivors saved by the Italian MAS boats. I know this will be a real problem, since no lists of the "guests" were made in the few time spent between Heraklion and the sinking, on that brave destroyer. A very sad detail from two books and several statements: after sinking, the German Stukas strafed the few Carley rafts and the victims, until an Italian seaplane marked with red crosses arrived and started circulating over them. This stopped these brutal attacks. Thanks for your kind attention and help, Marco
Marco - it's worth noting that the Research Officer of the 2/3rd Australian Light Anti-aircraft Regiment Association has just made an introductory post on this thread: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/47284-23-light-anti-aircraft-regiment-raa/
Thank you indeed, DaveB. I agree with you, this thread was poorly titled, I apologize. Maybe the admins will be able to modify its title, if possible. Furthermore, I am in contact with the Association. Kind regards, Marco
Hi Marco I am a relative of Thomas Watson Russell (VX32995). My wife just got back from Switzerland and there she went to the Swiss National Archives and got 2 documents. He entered Switzerland on foot via Biella-Campoluc over the Felixjoch, Betempshuette to Zermatt. He was in Vercelli prison camp, captured on 29 May 1943 near the Greek Island of Krete. If you have any other information we would be highly interested. Cheers Glenn
Hello Glenn, This is a really unexpected surprise! I will be more than pleased to provide you all the needed info, absolutely. i am going to write you via pm in order to give my e-mail address. I am very pleased to hear from you; my best wishes to your wife, too. Marco
