Assistance with Tracing Casualty from 2 Royal Ulster Rifles 29 November 1944?

Yes that's the record. I'm taking my information from forces war records. The injury he sustained was to his left leg. The date of action says 12/11/44 but the incident date says 05/12/44. I also don't know why the regiment name was changed to 2nd Batt Lincolnshire regiment. In this photo his cap badge seems to be RUR.

 

I'd ignore the 5/12/44 I think that is the date the correction is made (on the original document for that entry it doesn't have a date of casualty), but the actual entry is relating to the first one - I would say he was 2nd Lincolns at that point as they wouldn't make a correction without something to back it up - he had probably been transferred from the RUR to the Lincs shortly before being wounded hence the initial confusion. Men did get moved about between Regiments fairly regularly - when his service record arrives it will hopefully all become clear

 

Thanks, for your reply. That's great and as you say hopefully the army record will clear things up.

 

Hi Phill

Army number suggests he was in the Royal Army Service Corps
Army Number Block Allocations

My limited understanding of RASC is that once they were deployed to various units depending upon their specialism.

The Forces War Records show an S/ prefix on his 1948 army number which suggests he was in Supply then and may well have been previously.



2 RUR and 2 Lincs, together with 1 Kings Own Scottish Borderers, were part of the British 9th Infantry Brigade and all regiments were relatively close to each other during the campaign, perhaps he switched between the two? Alternatively, it is not impossible that, like my Dad, he was attached to 2 RUR but assigned to Brigade Headquarters which may have resulted in the confusion when he got injured (especially if he had lost his cap badge!).

It is certainly an RUR cap badge and so would be delighted to add his photo to the "Gallery" section of my website which also includes the Regimental Journal and War Diary for 2 RUR for the campaign from Sword to Bremen

2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 2 RUR Gallery

Details of the Regimental Journal for 2 Lincs during the same period can be viewed at:

Photo by MikeLCT (increment the page number in url to view sequentially)

and finally details of the British 9th Infantry Brigade Headquarters War Diary can be found at another site I put together at:

9th British Infantry Brigade During World War 2

Once you have obtained a copy of his service record it should hopefully clear the matter up and the above documents will then give you an idea of where he would have been (probably somewhere in the East of Holland).

Hope this helps.

Quis Separabit

 

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I'd be delighted if you could add Williams picture to the RUR gallery section. He's in the photo with my aunt Min, she also served with the RAF during the war.

After these messages last weekend I ended up messaging back and forth with another forum member called Buteman. He was fantastic help having researched the history of the 2nd battalion Lincolnshire regiment, and provided me with a lot of additional information.

I had read the war diary of the 2nd battalion RUR, but couldn't figure out why the incident when William was wounded wasn't included. Buteman provided the Linc's war diaries and the incident is explained there. It was on the 12th November, there were 13 casualties that day in heavy fighting east of Overloon near the river Maas/Meuse. He also appears in their register of soldiers but not until the end of 1944. Buteman has suggested that when the 2nd Linc's relieved the RUR on the 9th November which is confirmed in both war diaries that for some reason he then became a member of 2nd Linc's. He suggested that this happened frequently due to having to backfill positions due to deaths caused by the fighting.

The actual wounding incident is further described in a book about the 2nd Linc's called mettle and pasture. It seems there was heavy fighting between themathem strong German fighting patrol, over a farmhouse. William was shot in the left leg which basically took most of his calf off. The Linc's records show that he was released from hospital in June 1945 and I believe that was when he became a driver with the RASC. He went onto serve in Palestine as a driver, and we have photos from that period of his service.

I now have a map of the incident which is not far from the Overloon military museum.

I am hoping that Williams military record will clarify what caused him to switch from the RUR to the Linc's.

 

Here's the Linc's register, and map of the incident.

 

I will add his photo when I get a moment, any idea of date for the picture and/or more details of the bridge?

Now added at 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 2 RUR Gallery

 

Hello,

A relative found my grandfather's service record, so can confirm he did serve with the Royal Ulster Rifles and then transferred to the Linc's.

Joined 04/01/1944
Joined for service 19/02/1944
Posted RUR 19/08/1944
Posted Linc's 05/11/1944

So he was with the RUR for a couple of months, I assume it was the 2nd battalion but I'll need to confirm that fact. Do you know if there there a list of soldiers for each battalion?

So the photo must have been taken before the 23/08/1944. I'm looking forward to reading the war diaries for that period.

With regards to the fighting as far as I know it was not to take a particular bridge. I've read into the background of the fighting in the area and the Germans held onto a bridgehead over the river Meuse/Maas. He was wounded just before operation nutcracker 14/12/1944 which pushed the Germans back over the river.

 

2 Lincs were part of 9th British Infantry Brigade and spent most of their time alongside 2 RUR and 1 Kings Own Scottish Borderers and so it is very possible that he transferred from 2 RUR, especially as they were interchanging positions at the time (see below).

On the morning of the 6th November C Company of 2 RUR relieved A Company of 2 Lincolns and so it is also possible he transferred then (or if he was very lucky was part of Battalion HQ that went to Brussels the night before!).

The only details of specific members of 2 RUR I have come across (aside from those killed) have been those mentioned in the Regimental Journal (see 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2 ) and/or War Diary ( 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 2RUR War Diary ) although these are normally officers and/or people that have distinguished themselves for some reason or other.

Best of luck with your research....

Quis Separabit

 

FOO - Content From Wiki......
......In the 1938 re-organisation of the Royal Artillery batteries were divided into troops, with the troop commanders (Captains) as observing officers at an (OP). These officers and their parties could operate as either as an Observation Post (OP) or accompany the supported arm (infantry or armour) as Forward Observation Officers (FOOs). During World War II it became the practice for close support battery commanders to become part of the tank regiment or infantry battalion headquarters they were supporting. They also started using 'quick fireplans' usually limited to their own regiment, to support fast moving limited battalion action.

Generally FOOs were assigned to a company or squadron of a battalion or regiment that their battery was supporting. In the British artillery system FOOs were authorised to order fire commands to their own troop or battery, based on their assessment of the tactical situation and if necessary liaison with the supported arm commander.

The above confirms the suspicion that Captain Taylor was assigned to Headquarters Company of 2 RUR who were one of only 2 Companies in Blitterswijck at the time of the incident.

The 2 RUR Journal also suggests that he was known (and popular?) with 2 RUR:
As a result of this action, the Military Cross was won by OC 'D' Company, Major Bird, and also by the FOO Captain Taylor, both awards that were heartily acclaimed throughout the Battalion.

So is it possible that a RA FOO who was working closely alongside Headquarters Company of 2RUR had a Signaller provider by 2 RUR?

If this is the case then it potentially narrows down the search significantly....to just Rifleman Ravenscroft....


1 Rifleman George Frederick Anderson - 14691427 (773) - 2 RUR - KIA 29/11/1944

I am ruling him out as Rifleman George Frederick Anderson (Unknown-1944)... shows: "Buried in a fieldgrave in backyard of Hoofdstraat 68 Meerlo, Netherlands (map ref. 855247). Exhumated 09/1946 and reburied 16/09/1946 in Venray."

2. Rifleman H Ravenscroft - 14746461 (770) - 2 RUR - Wounded 29/11/1944 (only one of 2 RUR injured that day)

• Right Date: Wounded on 29 November
• Right Unit: rifleman in 2RUR
• Right Place: 2 RUR were in Blitterswijck at the time
• Right Person? Could potentially have been part of 2 RUR Signal Platoon and/or part of D Company or HQ Company who may have been in support of Captain Taylor's OP at the time?
• Does anyone know if a member of and infantry battalion Signal Platoon would have the title "Rifleman" or "Signalman"?

3. Acting Lance Corporal Norman Swanwick - 2343577 (768) - Royal Signals - 8 Corps Signals - Died of Wounds 29/11/1944

• Right Date: Died of Wounds on 29 November
• Right Place? Buried alongside 2 RUR men killed around the same time
• Right Unit? Records show he was part of 8 Corps Signals that was part of the 2nd Army that was in and around this area at at the time - not sure if he could have been assigned to 33 Field Regiment and/or 2 RUR?
• Right Person? One of only 3 "Signalmen" injured/killed that day and "died of wounds" so could have been injured, taken to basement but subsequently died of wounds if OP was isolated and he was not treated properly....

P.S. Details of 33 Field Artillery action between D-Day and VE Day can be viewed at 33 FIELD REGT ROYAL ARTILLERY 6 JUNE 1944 TO 5 MAY 1945 Copy No 60.pdf