Army Surplus.

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Doc

    Doc Senior Member

    The Colt 1911 is in fact still being used regularlyby US Special Forces (and I think there are some in Marine hands as well). Anyone who can gets hold of one in preference to the 9mm. Continued failure of 9mm in Afghanistan and Iraq as a "manstopper" is leading the US to seriously consider going back to a bigger bullet. It may be a .45 or it may be a .40, but change is coming, and the 1911 will soldier on for many more years somewhere in the world. Doc
     
  2. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    So i think we can say the old ones are the best. I seem to recall we were still using WW2 style tanks in Gulf War 1, whilst the Americans had state of the art computer whizbang tanks. Theirs broke down three hundred yards into the desert sands, ours trundled on past and kept going forever and a day. Makes you proud to be British.
     
  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    So i think we can say the old ones are the best. I seem to recall we were still using WW2 style tanks in Gulf War 1, whilst the Americans had state of the art computer whizbang tanks. Theirs broke down three hundred yards into the desert sands, ours trundled on past and kept going forever and a day. Makes you proud to be British.
    Are you thinking of that Centurion AVRE that they did up for 'Salvage squad' on TV? ONly just post ww2, Fosgene?? longest serving tank in the British Army? There's a picture of her leading the advance into Suez.
     
  4. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Are you thinking of that Centurion AVRE that they did up for 'Salvage squad' on TV? ONly just post ww2, Fosgene?? longest serving tank in the British Army? There's a picture of her leading the advance into Suez.

    I watched that Salvage Squad! Wasn't it bloody brilliant? They should make a new series of that.
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Just had a thought, not a weapon but shouldn't the Magnificent Bailey Bridge be in here, I see it's still manufactured and doesn't look to have changed much at all in the intervening years.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just had a thought, not a weapon but shouldn't the Magnificent Bailey Bridge be in here, I see it's still manufactured and doesn't look to have changed much at all in the intervening years.
    Good point.Many of the ones built in WW2 were still being used until very recently. Like the one outside the Aout 1944 Museum, Falaise, Normandy.
    Haven't got a photo of that bridge to show but some more here still in use.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_bridge

    (ps that was my 667th post, neighbour of the beast.)
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    And another thought, raised by another thread. I'm going to suggest the MG42... The MG3 is nearly exactly the same thing (blueprinted from an mg42 if memory serves) and surely still in service somewhere.
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Compare the two here.
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="50%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=smalltext colSpan=2>MG42 Machine Gun


    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=smalltext colSpan=2>[​IMG]

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top width="50%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=smalltext colSpan=2>MG3


    </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=smalltext colSpan=2>[​IMG]

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="39%"> </TD><TD width="22%"> </TD><TD width="39%"> </TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Maschinengewehr 42 GPMG
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Designation
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">MG3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">[​IMG]
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Flag
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Manufacturer
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Service Date
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Germany
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Country
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Germany</TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Heavy Machine Gun
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Type
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Light Support Machine Gun</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Operation
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Gas-Operated</TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">7.92 mm
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Caliber
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">7.92 mm</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">1,550 rounds per minute
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Rate of Fire
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">50 round belt
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Rounds Per Clip
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%">Various - Belt Fed</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">25.4 lbs with tripod
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Weight (Empty)
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">NA
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Weight (Loaded)
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#efefef><TD class=smalltext width="39%">48.03 inches
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Length
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="39%"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext width="39%">NA
    </TD><TD class=smalltext width="22%">Effective Range
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  10. lancesergeant

    lancesergeant Senior Member

    Isn't the Centurion still be being used by South African Defence Forces, but under a different name.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    On Unreported World (C4?) last week they were in Nepal.
    Maoist Guerillas were armed with Lee-Enfield Mk III.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    How old are these?
    Nepal again.
     
  13. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Looks like they came straight from Waterloo or Ishandhwala!!! Obviously British in origin but how old and how reliable???
     
  14. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Looks like they came straight from Waterloo or Ishandhwala!!! Obviously British in origin but how old and how reliable???

    As for age you'd have to say over 150 years, as the flintlock had by then been replaced by more modern weapons in most armies. This points to the fact that I can't agree with you on the comment about "Ishandhwala" or 'Isandlwana', as the British were using the breech loaded Martini Henry by that time.

    I think the question of reliability is a simple one. As long as the supply of black powder is kept in good order there should be no difference between the reliability now and when the weapon was firs made. It is made using 1800s technology and the only parts that should wear down or get broken are the sears and the spring, both of which should be repairable or replaceable by any blacksmith or meatal worker.

    Let us not forget that a lead ball flying at a few hundred feet per second is just as lethal now to a human body as it was in the 1800s and it only takes one hit to ruin your day.
     
  15. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Having taken a closer look the muzzle loaders may be 'Percussion lock' weapons, but all of the above still stands :)
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Let us not forget that a lead ball flying at a few hundred feet per second is just as lethal now to a human body as it was in the 1800s and it only takes one hit to ruin your day.
    You read my mind. Was just about to say the same. Are they Flintlocks? or percussion cap? I thought the latter, pictures not clear enough to easily magnify and identify.
    As for the Enfield aren't such 'archaic' designs quite popular in the desert/mountain conflicts because of the high range and accuracy compared with AK's and the like, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in the 80's seemed to carry quite a few.
     
  17. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  18. Glider

    Glider Senior Member

    The first millitary supplies given to the Mujahadeen when fighting the Russians were Lee Enfields taken from British surplus stores. At the time the USA wanted to give help that wasn't 'attributable' and this filled the bill.

    Canada found a significant number of Lee Enfields in stores about 10 years ago that hadn't been issued and were still wrapped up in their greased paper. They were sold individually to private buyers and sold like hot cakes. One of the members of my rifle club bought one. Took him ages to clean it. Its quite suprising what people find in old military warehouses.
     
  19. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    As for the Enfield aren't such 'archaic' designs quite popular in the desert/mountain conflicts because of the high range and accuracy compared with AK's and the like, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan in the 80's seemed to carry quite a few.

    I have a copy of Solider of Fortune from the eighties in which they tested body armour from Afghanistan. it was Soviet made and they fired a armilite at it and it survived but against the SMLE if the dummy had been real, then the wearer would have been seriously if not fataly wounded.

    The magazine also carried stories of Afghanis using the SMLE against hovering hinds, seems they knew the main weakpoint of the rotor and could bring them down!
     
  20. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    seems they knew the main weakpoint of the rotor and could bring them down!
    :eek:

    I think this is getting to the heart of why this thread interests me.
    If the modern fighting man is completely absorbed by his new Laser-controlled HUD and self-satisfied at his sides enormous air superiority then there's always the chance of someone sneaking up and belting him with a brick.


    Back to the main theme, Just read an account of The Israelis buying many Kar98's post WW2, 'de-nazifying' them and then using them fairly extensively until 1974. One site implies all were converted to a Sniper configuration by 1973 but this appears to be a minority view????
     

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