Army Number Block Allocations

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Geoff Reeves, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    That's most kind. I don't know if I'll get round to it today, but very soon, I hope.

    It's mostly blokes who were mobilised in 1939 or 40, and who may or may not have fought in France with their unit, but went on to meet their maker in later years.

    In the 14-18 war, it was usual for the local rag to hear about, and report, every episode in such cases, and in any case, Regimental Numbering gives a decent rough indicator of the date a man first joined his final unit, but neither of these things seem to apply to 1939-45.
  2. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    In which case for cmp (who I note is an infreqiuent visitor), please see:
  3. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    I'll message this to you as well.

    Right now I'm interested in 3 of the 4 names below. The fourth is recorded in local press as a veteran of Frence/Dunkirk 1940, even though his number (on the face of it) looks like it would have been assigned later than any of the others. Note that his fellow 2 Beds & Herts man, Hounslow, has a number which is 1200 "earlier" than his, but I don't know if he too went to France or not.

    The same absence of unequivocal evidence applies to the other two (Ackerman and Jarvis), although I'm hypothesising that Jarvis (the oldest of the four) may have been a militiaman or Territorial, simply because he was RAC and would have needed longer training for his role than might have been available to conscript infantry mobilised after 3 Sep 1939.

    I may have a few more to lookat from other years, but right now I'm writing up those who died in '43 for our vicar's pre-ceremony preamble on Remembrance Sunday. As it stands, I'm planning to reference their unit's France experience, without explicitly stating (except where I can be sure) that an individual took part therein.

    Hopefully I can learn enough from this exchange to do my own homework when I look at any others.

    554343 Jarvis, Frank William 3rd King's Own Hussars
    5338417 Ackerman, Leslie 1st Bn. Royal Berkshire Regiment
    5951135 Hounslow, Stanley Jack 2nd Bn. Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment
    5952335 Harris, Reginald William 2nd Bn. Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment (known to have served in France 1940)
  4. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    554343 Jarvis, Frank William 3rd King's Own Hussars
    Frank enlisted into the Hussars in 1934. The closest I have noted is 554306 Denham enlisted 19th March 1934, 554395 Pullen enlisted 4th January 1935. In 1943 Frank was serving in B Sqn. 3rd Hussars.

    5338417 Ackerman, Leslie 1st Bn. Royal Berkshire Regiment
    Enlisted late 1939 approx. 1st December. Number from a block allocated to 1st Bn Royal Berkshire Regiment

    5951135 Hounslow, Stanley Jack 2nd Bn. Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment
    Enlisted May/June 1939

    5952335 Harris, Reginald William 2nd Bn. Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment (known to have served in France 1940)
    Enlisted 16th October 1939
    dbf likes this.
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I've been continuing to add Enlistment Dates to my Guards' Nominal Roll threads using the Liberation Reports on Ancestry. For those who have access, this recent release might prove useful for others attempting similar pairings.
    Screenshot 2023-08-29 at 18.17.46.png

    On the thread linked below a few industrious members have posted numerous local newspaper photos / short articles on individuals, (serving, wounded, killed, awarded medals, etc) to which the contributors have added other useful source material.
  6. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    Shown in the 1939 register as Boot/Shoe Repairer, living at home w/ parents.
    Deduction/ Supplementary question (open to all comers):
    D: Presumably mobilised as a reservist;
    Q: Almost certainly a France/Dunkirk veteran?​

    CWGC shows several 1940 KIA/France 1940 from his Bn with numbers both higher and lower than his.
    Small sample:
    1st Bn Royal Berkshire Regiment
    DateOfDeath SvcNumber Surname Initials Age Burial
    29/05/1940 5338344 BINT H 20 Belgium
    15/05/1940 5338382 JAMES-HYDE F 21 Belgium
    27/05/1940 5338397 GEORGE AEP 22 France
    30/05/1940 5338399 WELLS EF 22 France
    25/05/1940 5338410 FLETCHER WAJ 20 France
    07/04/1943 5338417 ACKERMAN L 24 Myanmar
    22/05/1940 5339501 RICHARDSON EE 0 France
    25/05/1940 5340051 GINTY M 21 France
    24/05/1940 5340209 MITCHELL RV 21 France
    25/05/1940 5340227 CLACEY CC 21 France
    26/05/1940 5340378 SHAW CH 21 France
    16/05/1940 5340393 SAMUEL HJ 22 Belgium
    15/05/1940 5340416 WARBOYS E 21 Belgium
    27/05/1940 5340479 WILKES FA 21 France

    Deduction/ Supplementary question (open to all comers):
    D: Not conclusive, but strongly suggestive that Ackerman was indeed in France 1940?
    So Hounslow was enlisted some months earlier than Harris, from which:
    Deduction: It is vanishingly unlikely that he did NOT also serve in France.
    On all three of the above, I'm open to further thoughts.

    Gelert : I got so involved in thinking about your input, I completely forgot my manners.

    Many thanks for the information above, it has been very helpful.:salut:
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2023
  7. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    He probably enlisted on a "five and seven" (five years in the army and seven in the reserve) and would have returned to civvy street in 1939 when his five years was up. As a reservist he would have been recalled at the start of hostilities and posted to a regiment to bring it up to it's war time establishment. Most members of the RAC were recalled to their former regiment as they were familiar with the equipments operated by that regiment and were familiar with the people too. Relationships are important. Regiments are large families.

    3rd Hussars were not sent to France in 1939/40. They were part of the 2nd Armoured Division from December 1939 which did not see service in France.
    The_Stonker likes this.
  8. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    In which case, I have badly misunderstood something I have read (carelessly) along the way, and I'm grateful for the correction.
  9. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    Of the 193 members of the 3rd Hussars listed on the CWGC, none are recorded in France
  10. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    Apologies on this one. The date I gave you for Ackerman was deducted from enlistment dates of some adjacent numbers that now seem more likely to be transfer dates. It’s wrong, he’s earlier 1937/38. I’ll have a dig when I get in this evening. The Royal Berkshire Regiment allocated blocks of numbers to Battalions, so enlistment dates are not chronological but chronological within battalion block.

    I have nearly 300,000 enlistment dates recorded but have not got them on a database yet. It’s a mix of various spreadsheets (on more than one device) and A5 note books. If only we had another lockdown…….

  11. The_Stonker

    The_Stonker Active Member

    FWIW, Ackerman is shown in local press as being a Teacher, in Slough, before the war. Given his age (from memory, 24YO at death in Mar '43) his opportunities for military service between 6th form and WW2 would have been pretty limited.

    Re. Lockdown - yeah. But no thanks ;-)
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2023
  12. Debbie79

    Debbie79 Member

    How would I work out what my grandad was in I have just received his service number but awaiting his records from TNA. His service number is T 10671193.
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Royal Army Service Corps 1 - 294000 and 10660001 - 11000000
    T denotes Transport.
    Service records on our web site - RLC Digital Archive).
  14. Debbie79

    Debbie79 Member

    Thank you for that. I’m now waiting for the records to come to me. Fingers crossed soon. As I have been receiving quick responses off late.
  15. Debbie79

    Debbie79 Member

    I have tried searching all over the place and nothing until I applied for records from MOD and they were quick responding and the records are with TNA which I have applied for. How quick are they coming with the records because I received the service number the other day and I started this journey about a couple of weeks ago.
  16. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Lots of posts in this thread about delivery times for service records ……


    It’s not a precise science……could be 6 weeks or six months…..or longer.

    Good Luck

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  17. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    T/10671193 enlisted on 27th November or 4th December 1941.
  18. Debbie79

    Debbie79 Member

    Where did you find the information for that?
  19. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    I have nearly 300,000 British army enlistment dates recorded from 1920 to 1953. In late 1941, the RASC reporting day was a Thursday.

    The closest I have noted are 10671096 Alfred Angus and 10671265 William Johnstone both enlisted 27th November 1941.
    JohnH likes this.
  20. Debbie79

    Debbie79 Member

    Wow that’s phenomenal. Where do you get your research from? The TNA? I would love to know more about how you do your research?

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