Army and Royal Marine Commando's during OP Infatuate

Hello All,

I have been investigating in to the organisation and leadership of the commando's who took part in operation Infatuate I and II in November 1944. I have a couple of questions I need help with and some remarks on which I would like to have some sort of confirmation.

41 Royal Marine Commando
47 Royal Marine Commando
48 Royal Marine Commando
10 Inter Allied Commando
4 Commando

First of all I figured out the RMC's have different troop names A,B,P,X,Y,S for the 41st RMC and A,B.X.Y,Z,S for the 47th and 48th RMC. No 10 IA Commando and No 4 Commando have no 1 to 6 troop. is there some sort of reason for these differences? I'm unable to find any good reading about the organisation of these units. Both Niehorster and Bayonetstrength have no use able information. I als searched trough the forum as well as libraries but nothing useful to find anywhere.

I have received copies of the war diaries from all above mentioned units but, in contrary to the Canadian Army and British Army war diaries, these contain no weekly field returns. I'm hoping you are able to help me find the information regarding the following officers in the period of late October 1944 to november 1944:

Commander
2nd in command
Adjutant
Intelligence officer
Artillery officer
Quartermaster
Troop commanders

I'm looking for the same information regarding the 4th Special Service Brigade. and last but nog least I'm keen to find out if my assumption is correct that each Marine Commando is actually a large Company level unit?

Kind regards,

Remi

 

This is from a much earlier version of Bayonetstrength, and as I wrote it a long time ago no doubt there are multiple points that need fixing -

The Army Commando, circa 1943 to 1944

Commando Headquarters (7 Officers, 82 men) * increased by 3 men during 1944

Heavy Weapons Troops (2 Officers and 37 men)

Troop HQ (2 Officers, 4 men)

3-inch Mortar Section (17 men)

Medium Machine Gun Section (16 men)

Five Assault Troops (3 Officers and 63 men), each comprised of;

Troop HQ (1 Officer, 9 men)

Two Sections, each comprised of;

Section HQ (1 Officer, 1 man)

Two Sub-Sections, each 13 men

Total Strength of 458 all ranks (24 Officers and 434 men) * increased to 461 all ranks during 1944

Points of note

The terminology used for Commando units can be a little confusing. The Section refers to a unit much larger than its Infantry equivalent, while the Sub-Section is practically identical!

Authors have described several variations of the Troop organisation used, the above is taken from official sources. It is clear however that an alternative to the Troop outlined below was also used, so both options are covered.

The elements of the Commando

Commando HQ - provided the same functions to the Commando as to other units, but in a much abbreviated form, including an eighteen man Signal Section, plus transport and intelligence troops.

Heavy Weapons Troop - the light weapons of the Assault Troops were partially augmented by the three 3-inch mortars and three medium machine guns of the Heavy Troop's two Sections. The machine gun used was initially the heavy Vickers, but this was replaced in some formations by the Vickers K Gun which was far lighter and mobile, but could not provide the same kind of sustained firepower as its predecessor.

It was known for men to be withdrawn from the Rifle Troops to act as additional ammunition bearers in difficult terrain, especially in mountain areas where the assigned Jeeps could not reach.

Assault Troop - here's where things become clouded. There are two distinct versions of Troop organisation varying between 60 and 66 men. The smaller unit is generally ascribed to the Royal Marine Commando, particularly to the Normandy landings of 1944. The larger Troop is detailed for the Army Commando during the Mediterranean campaign of 1943. It may be that the Royal Marines adopted a different organisation, while the Army Commando continued with the previous one. Equally it is just, if not more likely, that the officially sanctioned organisation was heavily amended by both types of units for the D-Day operations. Both options are therefore detailed below.

HQ comprised of the Troop Commander, a Captain, and Sergeant Major. The officer's batman acted as a runner, and there was also a stretcher bearer and attached RAMC nursing orderly. Two men were detailed to act as gunners for the two 2-inch mortars, and no less than three men served the single PIAT.

The two Sections each comprised of a Subaltern and Sergeant at HQ, with two Sub-Sections, each with a Lance Sergeant, Corporal and eleven men. The Troop also had four Bren guns, undoubtedly one per Sub-Section, plus two sniper rifles and two rifles fitted with grenade discharger cups. There is no indication from the official tables of personal weapons, but nine Thompson submachine guns were authorised, meaning the majority of the Troop would have carried rifles. Two silenced Sten guns were also allocated.

The Royal Marine Commando Troop of 1944 is somewhat different. Troop HQ was reduced to a Captain, two Subalterns, the Sergeant Major and an orderly. There were now two Assault Sections, each with two Sub-Sections and a Support Sub-Section, totalling twenty seven men..

Each Sub-Section comprised of eleven men, led by a Sergeant with submachine gun. The six man rifle group was led by a Corporal, again with SMG, and five rifle armed men. The gun group was led by a rifle armed Corporal, with a Bren gunner and two rifleman to assist him. The five man Support Sub-Section was led by a Corporal with SMG, and contained a sniper and a three strong 2-inch mortar team. The gunner carried a pistol and the mortar, his two ammunition bearers both rifles.

This leaves one man unaccounted for. I had presumed he was an attached medic, but I have seen a reference to a Sergeant in Charge with the first Section. This same source, from the RM Museum, also mentions both sniper and demolition sections as part of the Commando HQ, but gives no specific detail, other than to reduce strength to approximately 450 all ranks.

My copy of the 1943 WE is missing page 2, which detailed Commando HQ and the Signal Troop, so there is a good deal of reverse engineering required.

Re the lettering of Troops, from memory there is a discussion on the forum about this, which mentions the RM Cdos used the lettering of turrets on RN ships for their Commandos, while the Army used a more prosaic system.

Gary

 

Gary Kennedy Thank you for your answer. I assume the heavy weapons troop to be the first platoon in the order of battle?

Do you happen to know how the French troops where incorporated in the no4 commando organisation? I regularly have seen mentioning that the French troops where under command of Capt. Kieffer but they have different troop commanders.

Cheers,

Remi

 

I can't offer any help re French troops I'm afraid. Re the numbering/lettering of the Heavy Weapons Troop, when the Commando was reorganised in 1941 it had six identical Troops, with a pool of support weapons for issue as required. The August 1943 WE formalised the Commando as five Commando Troops and one Heavy Weapons Troop. I don't know that all Commandos identified their Weapons Troop using the same number/letter; sometimes when a subunit was converted to a different role it might retain its former identifier to avoid having to change these throughout the unit.

Gary

 

No. 10 Commando lived on a Provisional War Establishment that doesn't seem to have been replaced by a regular War Establishment throughout its existence.

Effective: ??.07.1942. (According to the unit's war diary, H.Q. No. 10 Commando passed the War Establishment Committee at the War Office on 26.06.1942.)
To consist of H.Q. and four Troops initially with probable increase to eight Troops. (Finally, at least 10 Troops were formed, see below.)

(Apologies! Due to tight filing, the first letters in each row had to be guessed and completed to the best of my knowledge. "?" for missing word or digit and "<>" for a guess.)

H.Q. Commando - British personnel only
1 Lieut.-Col.
1 Second-in-Command (Major)
4 Captains (?, ?, Liaison, Intelligence)
1 Subaltern
1 Medical Officer attached (Captain)

1 Regimental Quartermaster-Serjeant? & Pay ("W.O. or equivalent")

2 Serjeants (Orderly Room, ?)
2 Corporals (both ?, Royal Signals)
1 Corporal Clerk
1 Lance-Corporal Clerk
4 Clerks
8 Batmen Runners
1 Serjeant Driver, I.C.
1 Lance-Corporal Driver, I.C.
5 Drivers, I.C.
1 Lance-Corporal Driver, M.C.
2 Drivers, M.C.
1 Serjeant <Armourer>
1 <Armourer>
1 Lance-Corporal Intelligence Clerk
1 Lance-Corporal Medical Orderly
1 Equipment Repairer
Totals: 8 Officers (including attached M.O.), 1 Warrant Officer, 4 Serjeants, 3 Corporals, 5 Lance-Corporals, 23 Privates etc.: 44 all ranks

Transport:
1 Car, 4-seater
3 P.Us.
2 43-ton Lorries
4 Motor cycles (1 for Liaison Officer)
2 Bicycles


Troop - Commando - Home
(H.Q., 2 Sections, each with Section H.Q. and 2 Sub-Sections)
Troop H.Q.
1 Captain
1 Subaltern (National or British Officer speaking language perfectly.)

2 Serjeants
2 Corporals (1 Signaller)
2 Lance-Corporals (1 Signaller)
19 Privates etc. (2 Batmen Runners, 2 Clerks, 2 Drivers, I.C., 1 Medical Orderly, 4 Mortar 2'' personnel, 1 Motor cyclist, 6 Signallers, 1 Storeman)
Total: 2 officers, 23 other ranks, 21 rank and file, 25 all ranks.
8 Signallers with No. 38 sets.

Section H.Q. (each)
1 Subaltern (National or British Officer speaking language perfectly.)
1 Serjeant
1 Private (Batman Runner)
Total: 1 officer, 2 other ranks, 1 rank and file, 3 all ranks

Sub-Section (each)
2 Lance-Serjeants
2 Lance-Corporals
10 Privates etc.

(Troop) Transport
1 Truck, 8-cwt., 4-wheeled
1 Lorry, 3-ton, 4-wheeled
2 Motor cycles
2 Bicycles

(Ref. also letter C.R.W.C. S 7953 (A.1) dated 06.07.1942)


"National" Troops formed
The unit's war diary starts on 26.06.1642.
A letter from the O.C. re. Formation of 10th (Inter Allied) Commando Provisional Progressive Report, 07.07.1942, lists the following structure:
Headquarters, at Troon, moving to Harlech
French Troop, in Ayr, moving to Criccieth
Dutch Troop, at Troon
Belgian Troop
Norwegian Troop

During July 1942, (24. - 27.), "X" Troop is mentioned. Thereafter it is numbered as No. 3 (to contain Germans, Austrian, Czech, Hungarian German-speaking individuals ...).
3 more Troops were ordered to mobilise (war diary entry 22.09.1942)

Troop numbers follow the Commando Veterans website (10 Commando | ͏):
No. 1 Troop - French
No. 2 Troop - Dutch
No. 3 Troop - Refugees (this term in not mentioned in the war diary)
No. 4 Troop - Belgian
No. 5 Troop - Norwegian
No. 6 Troop - Polish
No. 7 Troop - Yugoslavian
No. 8 Troop - French (first mention in war diary on 09.07.1943)

While the Commando Veterans' website ends here, the war diary tells of a massive intake of Belgian individuals after the liberation of Belgium in February 1945 which led to two more Belgian troops (Nos. 9 and 10, additionally to the already existing No. 4 Troop) plus an extra Belgian Headquarters.

In July 1945, the war diary mentions the proposed formation of three more Dutch troops, earmarked for the Far East.

All dates are in dd.mm.yyyy format.
Source for the war diary and the War Establishment: DEFE 2/45 at TNA

 

The French Troops (No. 1 and 8) were detached temporarily to No. 4 Commando (No. 10 Commando's war diary, 16.04.1944). As the foreigners of No. 10 Commando and similar other British units were always eager to take active part in the liberation of their homelands, the French had to be engaged in the liberation of France, in one way or another. No. 10 Commando was never employed as a homogenous unit, instead the national Troops sent individuals, attached to other units, Commandos and other, to provide specialists. Sometimes, tact and sensitivity was welcome. Charles Dunning, author of several books on Commandos and himself a long-time member of No. 4 Commando, provides some background to the French Commandos attached in his book "The Fighting Fourth":
"... the next really important event was the posting of two French troops of Commandos from No. 10 to join No. 4 and their placing under command of Col. Dawson for the impending invasion. As outlined earlier, Dawson was bilingual, and this, coupled with the understanding of the French, their backgrounds, culture and national pride, together with his outstanding military ability and leadership, was to earn him much respect and loyalty from these Allied Commando comrades.
The two French troops were originally commanded by Kieffer and Trepel, but the latter disappeared on one of the Hardtack raids, and his place was taken by Lofi. On joining No. 4, Dawson made Kieffer his "senior Officer of French Troops" and Guy Vourch took over Kieffer's troop."

If I remember correctly, I read "somewhere" (in planning papers?) that the two French troops extended the organization of No. 4 Commando's troops (they had lettered troops) for command and administrative purposes. Of course, in publications the French troops are understandably quoted under their proper names "for history purposes".