Armoured Trains.

Track-plough in action:


Found late yesterday, and have now lost the site.
I miss safari's history browser...
They did a lot of that the last 3 years of the war!!!

Nice pic mate/

 

I recently bought a book called Die Deutsche Reichbahn 1939-1945
Zwischen Ostfront und Atlantikwall.

Some excellent photographs and one showing the rails being destroyed at Stettin (Now Poland) during the retreat West.

Regards
Tom

 

In the first photo even the plough is off the tracks!

I worked in railway construction in the past. Those sleepers are immensely strong, I never saw one fail. I imagine tearing up track like this would be immensely costly in fuel terms, and the equipment itself would be breaking down all the time due to strain.

A great article on the DR in Feldgrau.

 

A bit off topic but...

Deutsche Reichsbahn

Extermination camps were established at railway lines, as the victims were transported by trains to the camps. The German Reichsbahn managed its affairs virtually independently. The SS therefore, had to pay them for transport charges. The fare in 1942 amounted to 0.04 Reichsmark (RM) for 1 adult per kilometre. Children paid half, and those younger than four years were transported free of charge.

After 1939 the deportations of German Jews to the East started. The Reichsbahn created a special group fare, which amounted to half price, if at least 400 persons were transported with one train. No matter why the persons were in the trains; the Reichsbahn did not care. In order to save money, the SS tried to arrange death trains to carry as many deportees as possible. Therefore usually 1,000-2,000 victims were thus crowded together in cattle wagons. In 1942, trains with up to 60 wagons were the norm, each transporting around 5,000 victims to the extermination camps. The SS forced the Jewish communities to pay the fare; one way tickets naturally...

 

In the book 'Tracing Your Tank Ancestors' by David Fletcher and Janice Tait, there is a photo of what I believe to be the Berwick Train, and it mentions that they operated by the Royal Armoured Corp.

 

The Scottish trains are mentioned in some detail in If Hitler Comes. The armament is indeed a couple of ex WWI Hotchkiss 6 Pdrs the same as those used in Type 28 Anti Tank Pillboxes. One at either end of the train. I'll dig out the book and see what it says, but if I recall the thinking was that the trains were better able to cover the large distances that needed patrolling in Scotland where the lines often run along the coast. They could also cover a lot of the potential invasion beaches and bring much needed firepower to bear.

 

Quoting directly from If Hitler Comes by Gordon Barclay.

"They were intended as a way of rushing heavier support to isolated and vulnerable places, especially on beaches, and after Lt Col Alan Mount RE, chief inspector of railways a the Ministry of Transport suggested that armoured trains could be of considerable value, a design was worked out quickly in May 1940. By 10th June six trains were already in hand and material for a further 14 was available. Their role at first was to patrol the coast to locate enemy detachments and parachutists, to reinforce threatened points, and to protect railway gangs."

There were 12 in all in the UK. Six of which were in Scotland.

 

Can anyone direct me to information concerning the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway, Armoured Train please?
I have photos, but im interested in dimensions and technical drawings. I have tried contacting RHDR, but with no reply.

 

still amazing that the friction of the engine wheels on the rails is somehow stronger than the break strength of (multiple) rail sleepers.

I can well imagine that a train at full speed can rip up some 20 of these sleepers before halting, but when slowly progressing at 1 mile/hr ... is it then just at the limit friction ?

 

You can see the railroad plough, also known as a Schienenwolf (rail wolf) or Schwellenpflug (sleepers plough), in action here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRBN6oFt2hw

 

When you think of the power required to do that damage you should also remember that the actual contact area of the driving wheels will only be the equivalent of a 10p piece per wheel.

 

Dear Gentlemen and Army Experts,

The Armoured Trains used in the UK during 1940 as anti-invasion units had x2 6 pdr guns, x6 brens, x8 rifles with a crew of 24 men.

Balfour has noted in his book is that this represented a significant increase in the fire power of an equivalent unit in the infantry at the same time (ie before the specalisation of weapon sections and light vehicles).

Much of the discussion in these forums is at weapon based or at a very high unit level. As far as my limited knowledge goes I think that a platoon was 9 nine men with x1 bren, x1 mortar, and x8 rifles.

An equivilency could be summarised to rounded up numbers as:

Infantry = 2.5 platoons, with x3 brens, x3 mortars, x24 rifles. The AT therefore presents a fourfold increase in firepower.

What do you think?

 

Owen,

Thanks for the link, learning something everyday.

So, in the 1940 platoon there were 1 officer and 58 men in 6 sections, with x58 rifles, x6 bren, x1 AT rifle, x1 2in mortar.

For the armoured train crew with 24 men, 40% of the rifle platoon, the firepower fielded is x2 6pdrs, x6 brens, x12 rifles.

I think that my guessimate of four fold increase in firepower is still suitable for my purposes, thanks again.

 

Not quite - but it's easy to misread. Each platoon had three sections. Of the three platoons in a company, only one was commanded by an officer, the other two were commanded by the short-lived WOIII Platoon Sergeant Major.

 

I was a little surprised to read that the 1940,platoon contained roughly twice the manpower that I expected, but checking the reference above and my mathematics, I make the 1940 rifle platoon to consist of 29 or 30 people (30 when commanded by an officer), whichis what I would have expected.

Chris

 

The personnel for the armoured trains weren't as simple as allocations by platoon....the Polish-manned trains for example had VERY officer-heavy manpower - some of the crews being wholly officers! Officers being available in large numbers in the Polish Free Forces in 1940, as the number of Polish troops that managed to escape to the west by various roundabout routes was officer-heavy....

In relation to Chris' comments above - in the summer of 1940 many units were over-subscribed, as training depots and holding battalions etc. were emptied of manpower ASAP through July and early August to make room for a vast influx of new call-ups after Dunkirk - and there was nowhere to send those IN the depots and holding battalions but on to regular battalions etc.! So it's very common in the summer of 1940 to find battalions etc. with very very full rosters, and often far more men than they normally would...showing up as temporarily swollen platoon numbers.