Armoured Trains.

Armoured Trains.
I topic we have yet to discuss on this Forum at any great length I believe.
A subject with great potential.
From The Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway's smallest Armoured Train



to the use in Poland 1939 and onwards to The Eastern Front.


I even found they were used in Croatia in the early 1990's.http://stef124.tripod.com/krajina_ekspres.htm
and http://www.answers.com/topic/armoured-train


I suppose the heyday of the Armoured Train would have been in the Russian Civil War . Use in WW2 would have been limited to Finland 1940 and Poland in 1939 would it not?
What about anti-Partisan use on the Eastern Front? Can anyone shed light on their use.
Easily susceptible sabotage of the track (The Permanent Way to be precise.) I can see their short comings but they must have been reasonably successful,or not?

 

I know a lot of FlaK gear defending German territory was mounted onto trains but I'm unsure of it's effectiveness or even the extent of it's use, surely not a bad idea for heavy guns to be able to respond to where the raids were thickest? Anyone know how seriously the allies took this kind of defence?

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><!--msnavigation--><TD vAlign=top>Armoured train Finland


First armoured trains were used in Finland during 1918. Both white and red armies had self made armoured trains - the Reds also got a few trains from the Russian Bolsheviks. After the war captured equipment was used to build two armoured trains for the Finnish Army. In the beginning of the Winter and Continuation Wars, trains were mainly used as mobile artillery supporting infantry. Later in the Continuation War their main task was to protect rail transports and stations from air attacks.
Typical configuration of an armoured train would be an armoured engine, a few armoured cars with 40mm Bofors AAA and AA machine guns. Both ends of the train had cars filled with gravel to detonate possible mines.
The car above is the oldest one - it was captured from the Russians in 1918. Trains and cars were constantly modified. The colour scheme on this museum train is the one used in the end of the Continuation War 1944.

This car was captured 1941 in East-Karelia. It had two 76mm guns and several machine guns..

The engine was armoured during the wartime - this engine is not. Otherwise it is an authentic 1943 Lokomo engine

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://www.saunalahti.fi/veijju/tankit/tank0000.html

 

Polish armoured train destroyed by the Germans in 1939.
http://www.geocities.com/pibwl/gswreck.htm

Photos of Hitler visiting the wreck too. Quite a "Victory" for the Germans if he wished to view it.

 

Substantial Japanese Armoured Train for Manchuria here:
http://uk.geocities.com/sadakichi09/army/IJ-MRAT.htm

I find it interesting that some, such as the one posted by Laufer above look like very professional jobs but quite a lot of them are obviously extemporised designs. It also looks like concrete was quite often used in construction. I can see them being a white-elephant to a peace-time Army but suddenly quite an attractive proposition when war breaks out, a kind of halfway house between a strategic and a tactical weapon?? Massively limited though, purely for protecting supply lines/rear area defence against geurillas? or could/did they ever play a significant part in denying areas to the enemy or as a major part of an offensive?

 

Found some info on Soviet Armoured Trains. Alot about Civil War but some Great Patriotic war Trains too.
Soviet Armored Trains


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Anyone want a book on Soviet Armoured Trains?
http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=0887409172


Found this.http://www.tracks-n-troops.com/eastern_front.htm


German Flak on a train: taken in the South of Russia on January 6th 1944, this image shows an 88mm gun with at least 23 victory markings on it with light 20mm Flak 38 pieces in the background. Image by PK. Dauscher

 

just to go back to thr RH&D Railway Armoured train here's some more info.
http://www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/history.html
The RH&DR was the culmination of the dreams of two men; Captain J. E. P. Howey — a sometimes racing driver, millionaire land owner, former Army Officer and miniature railway afficionado and Count Louis Zborowski — eminantly well-known racing driver of his day (famous for owning and racing the Chitty Bang Bang Mercedes) and considerably richer, even, than Howey

The war years took their toll, the line being requisitioned by the War Department — they even created the only miniature armoured train in the world — and was used extensively during the building of PLUTO (Pipe Line Under The Ocean) which fuelled the Allied invasion force.

From here.http://www.narrow-gauge-pleasure.co.uk/rlyromney.html

During the war the railway saw service in a number of ways. A special branch was laid to the site of a number of concrete structures designed to focus the sound of attacking aircraft and allow their early detection. Troops were billeted at the holiday camps and special trains run for them. There was even an armoured train, one of the locomotives (Hercules) was fitted with armour and coupled to two solidly built and armoured steel bogie wagons built for mineral haulage on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway.
Ultimately however the last military project the railway was involved in cost it dearly, the PLUTO project (pipeline under the ocean) was devised to supply an invading army in France with petrol and oil. Vast lengths of pipe were welded together on the platforms at New Romney and Coaches were stripped to the underframes to carry them. After many of the coaches were destroyed it was found to be easier to drag the pipes across the shingle behind tracked vehicles, these destroyed the permanent way as they went.

 

Some excellent coverage of Armoured trains and rail-mounted guns here:
http://www.railwaygun.co.uk/ (click on the Icons above the frame.)

There's some good stuff on there on 'Dora', but she doesn't really qualify as an armoured train... Maybe worthy of a thread in her own right. And what a contrast to the Hythe line, pictures of which have always made me giggle.

Image from:
http://www.aopt91.dsl.pipex.com/railgun/Content/Railwayguns/German/Dora%20index.htm

 

http://www.railwaygun.co.uk/

Top site VP.
Masses of info there.

 

I'm going from distant memory here, but doesn't Winston Churchill's autobiography of his early career include a mention of riding on an armoured train in the Boer War?

Adrian
More info on that event here. Good slide show on there
http://www.goldiproductions.com/BoerWar_Museum/Boer25_then_now1.html

and herehttp://www.warthog.co.za/dedt/tourism/battlefields/conflict/talana.htm

<TABLE class=basic><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>In order to demonstrate some activity, it was the practice to despatch an armoured train consisting of a locomotive sandwiched between three wagons fitted with loopholes and carrying a 7 pounder gun.


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

H7031, H7033, H7034 and just found H3043
Description: Polish troops man an armoured train on a line at North Berwick in Scotland, 4 February 1941. The train was armed with a 6-pdr gun, two Boys anti-tank rifles and six Bren guns.


That 6 pdr looks like it from an old WW1 tank.