Hello again Spyder, Thank you for posting these great photos of your father's bulldozer. In the Landing Tables for JUNO Armoured D7 bulldozers are not labeled as belonging to 866 Mech Eqpt Coy RE as such, but to 59 Mech Eqpt Sec RE, which I understand was part of 866 ME Coy. The only mentions of 866 ME Coy I know are for HQ 866 ME Coy, with not bulldozer but tractors, rollers and various other vehicles due to land on D+1 and D+4. 59 ME Sec armoured bulldozers for the inital phase on JUNO were planned as follows: MIKE Sector: Serial To land on 1116 H+75mins MIKE GREEN 1x D 7 Bulldozer Armd towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1120 H+75mins MIKE RED 1x D 7 Bulldozer Armd towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1127 H+105mins MIKE GREEN 1x D 7 Bulldozer Armd towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1134 H+135mins MIKE GREEN 1x D 6 Bulldozer Armd towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1136 H+135mins MIKE RED 1x D 7 Bulldozer Armd towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1137 H+135mins MIKE RED 1x D 6 Bulldozer [Armd] towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 2 men Apparently 59 ME Sec dozers for NAN Sector were not of the armoured type. D7 was Class II while the D8 was Class I (no armoured version known). NAN Sector: Serial To land on 1523 H+75mins NAN WHITE 2x Bulldozers Class II towing 2x Trailers Jahn with 6 men 1531 H+75mins NAN RED 1x Bulldozer Class I towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1539 H+90mins NAN WHITE 1x Bulldozer Class I towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1540 H+90mins NAN WHITE 1x Bulldozer Class I towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men 1542 H+90mins NAN WHITE 1x Bulldozer Class II towing 1x Trailer Jahn with 3 men The Serials above were all LCT Mark IV. The Mobilisation Serial Number of 59 ME Sec was 35839. It turns out that the Armored Dozer on LCT Serial 1136 was actually a D6, not a D7: D6A - 1T3037 35839-1136 LCT = Det 59 M E Sec - Dozer Exxx221- (censored) 'WINNIE FAY.'- p012929 The markings on your father's bulldozer should have included, as a minimum: 1. The Arm of Service colours of the Unit (a Blue square with White Bar below denoting Army Troops) with inside the Unit Serial (which I do not know) - front of engine armour and rear, offside 2. The manufacturer's number of the bulldozer (1T1xxx for Armoured D7) - front top of engine armour, offside (horizontal) 3. The War Department Registration Number of the vehicle (the letter 'E' followed by 6 digits, the first of which most probably a '2') - front top of the nearside engine armour plate, sometimes at an angle (parallel to the top of the plate) 4. The Allied Star - engine armour front top and both sides of driver's cab, and rear 5. The Loading code, i.e. someting like 35839/11xx LCT, or 35839/11xx LCTIV - front of engine armour or top front of dozer blade Some bulldozers had an official nickname painted on the front, others a less official one (like the driver's girlfriend's) painted or chalked on the front and/or sides. From your photos, on your father's dozer the Allied Star was also present on the engine front offside plate, and the WD Reg No. on the rear (mostly hidden by the tool box). Another marking not present on all dozers is the vehicle number in the Unit (here N952) on the rear and also (apparently) on the sides just ahead of the Star, as well as some letters/digits below the Star on the rear. There's also what looks like a vertical yellow band on the rear, which could indicate a vehicle alloted to Obstacle Clearance, although in other Areas such a band would have been horizontal rather than vertical. Maybe you could try scanning (rather than photographing) these pics in higher resolution, while pressing them down onto the scanner top, to ensure a correct focus. We might then be able to see more info on the marking on front and rear. Michel
Hi Michel, Many thanks for all your help here. Really interesting stuff. My next step now is to see if I can restore these photographs. I do have a friend who may be able to help. I will be back. Regards Alan
Spyder, The Recommendation for Award for your father's MM was written in 1945, and gives 866 ME Coy RE, part of 2 Army Tps, as his unit. However, he might have been in a different unit on D Day, and maybe not in 59 ME Sec either. Do you have your father's Service Record? If not, it might be a good idea for you to procure them, because they will most probably tell you in which unit he was on D Day. Michel
Hi Michel Looking at My Dad`s "Record of Service" (Army Form W5258) it gives no mention of 59 Plant troop. All it states is (Regiment, Corps: R.E`s 1/10/42 - 1/2/48) However, his "Release Leave Certificate" states unit regiment as 59 PLANT TROOP R.E Date of Last Enlistment 20th August 1942 I figure this is what you mention? I will attempt to upload pictures of both Documents, but I am having Scanner issues at present Regards
Spyder, I'm trying to figure out in which unit your father was on D Day. There were only a few which had armoured bulldozers in the Assault Phase: - 8x Armd Bulldozers (probably all D7 Armd) attached to the Assault Squadrons RE, probably manned by Assault Engrs, but maybe not all. Some if not all of these bulldozers came from 149 Aslt Pk Sqn RE, part of HQ 1 Aslt Bde and Aslt Pk Sqn RE (AoS 1232). - 4x Armd Bulldozers D7 "surplus to War Establishment" in 3 Cdn Fd Pk Coy (AoS 48) - 32x Armd Bulldozers D7 as "Special Inc (Bulldozers) 3 Cdn Fd Pk Coy" (AoS probably 48 too) - 6x Armd Bulldozers (4x D7, 2x D6) 59 Mech Eqpt Sec RE, part of 102 Beach Sub Area (AoS not known) I supposed, but am probably wrong, that 59 Plant Tp RE might have been part of 59 ME Sec on D Day. But your father might also have been in another unit altogether, and/or attached to one of the above units for operating a Bulldozer. Paul Reed in his post #14 above: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/15608-armoured-bulldozers-on-d-day/?p=176225 says that 860 [probably a typo: 866] ME Coy RE supplied 36 Armd Bulldozers to JUNO units. This fits nicely with the 4 "surplus to WE" + 32 "Special Inc" used by 3 Cdn Fd Pk Coy. I therefore now believe that you father (then already in 866 ME Coy) was attached to this unit on D Day, which makes it even more difficult to find his Landing Craft... Finally, the chain of command apparent in your father's Recommendation for Award, as shown by the title of the various signatories, was probably the one effective in July 1945 rather than in June 1944: Unit 866 Mech Eqpt Coy RE O.C. 866 ME Coy and acting C.R.E. No.3 M.E.U. CE Second Army Commander Second Army In May 1944, 866 ME Coy RE was part of 1 Corps Troops. When you can post his Service Record we might be able to find some more clues... Michel
May or may not be relevant but in the 1980's 59 was the RE Marine Commando squadron. In the same way that 9 para is the Parachute unit of the Re's.
I can not really help with the current discussion but I have been puzzling over the armoured dozers for years. I am not at all sure that the armoured Caterpillar in Post 41 is a D6. There were armoured D6 dozers landing on D Day, although not many. I am fairly sure that this is one. This has a simple armoured cab and armour covering the radiator, which would normally be a good identification feature. The hydraulic lifting gear for the dozer blade is the type used on the D6 as standard. The armoured D7 used the hydraulic gear from the D6 but this was not fitted to unarmoured D7s as standard. Armoured D7s are still not well documented but a special batch of 138 were ordered for the WD. The source of the armour is still a matter for debate. The US developed their own armoured D7 for beach work etc. Was it actually used? One day I must start a thread on this but I do not need another project just now. Mike
That is a great picture. I really like the folded rear mounted crane. The blade looks a forerunner of a modern Pushcat blade, which I think have only been around since the late fifties. Pushcats only job is to push bottom loading scrapers during loading. The support arms are inside the tracks and the blade is narrower than the scaper. There are a couple of Cats with standard bulldozer blades working behind the Pushcats in this clip. I digress but I love stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9EqGYDyp4s
Dave, Those post war Caterpillar D6 cause confusion because they were used as armoured dozers by USA, Canada and Israel. Very different vehicles though. The British armoured D7 is cleverer than it looks. The use of the hydraulics means that there are no cables to be damaged by shrapnel and the winch is available for other purposes. The use of a narrower blade means it will fit into landing craft. The diesel engine needed a donkey engine to start it and the donkey engine needed the operator to dismount to start it. The armoured D7 had an electric starter for the donkey engine. Good design but still using standard components. The D6 was also good for use in early days of a landing for many of the same reasons. Mike. I forgot. I will be starting a new thread if I am not careful.
Distinguishing D6 from D7 The easy way to distinguish these. is the relative positions of the air cleaner and exhaust. D6 - the air cleaner is nearer the front with the exhaust nearer to the driver D7 - the air cleaner is to the rear (just in front of the driver and the exhaust is further forward Thank you Caterpillar!
Here's a couple of examples: First A line up of D7s at Oldings Second a prototype "head cover" on a D7alos at Oldings Both photos are courtesy of the Tank Museum, Photo Numbers 6273/C/4 & 6273/C/2
First - my Thanks to Michel Sabarly for pointing out my typo above I should have written "First a line up of D6s" not D7s (it had been a busy day) Second -Mike I have some information on the US near equivalent to the BARV as your picture in post #48, I will start a new thread tomorrow Noel
Been a long time but I finally have some information that puts everything into place about my Father & one of his Armoured D7`s on Juno Beach. Unbelievable, but I have recently had the pleasure in meeting another Juno Beach Dozer Operator, 94 year old "Mr Thomas Whetnall" who has given me some amazing information. Both Thomas & my Father were from 59 M.E & were operators of Dozers on Juno Beach. They landed on "Mike Red" sector & were attached to the 3rd Canadian Division. Thomas was the operator of an Allis-Chalmers HD-10 & my late Father was the operator of several D7A Armoured Dozers Thomas & my late Father Tom were also sent to Bergen Belsen in April 1945 to undertake the digging of mass graves
spyder, Having found a surviving mate of your father's is incredible indeed! Well done! If you meet Mr Whetnall again, you might want to clear up some details which might help pointing out exactly where he and you father were on D Day. Naturally, it would be totally understandable if he cannot remember the answers to these questions: - they landed on MIKE RED Beach. Were they also planned to land on MIKE RED Beach, or on another? If another, which one? - does he know the hull number or serial of his landing craft? Of your father's landing craft? - how was 59 ME Sec organised (number of platoons, of dozers per platoon etc.) - confirm with him that on D Day a bulldozer normally had one driver and one co-driver attached, and ask who was his driver/co-driver, and your father's - you can show him the photo of the Armoured D6 angle dozer in post#41 above and ask him whether he knows who was driving it. - does he know anybody in his unit who had a girlfriend or wife named/nicknamed 'Winnie' or 'Fay' (the names which can be seen on the D6A dozer on the above picture)? - any names he can remember (of fellow drivers, of officers etc.) Did you receive your father's Service Record yet? Michel
Being confused about how to tell a D6A from a D7A, and about how to distinguish the various models of Caterpillar tractors as well, I did the attached comparisons a while ago: _ID - D6A-D7A - differences _ID - D4-D6-D7-D8 - differences Michel
Michel. Sadly Tom`s memory is failing, but when we met last year he stated that he & my Father both landed on Mike Red are were 59 Mechanical equipment. I will speak with his daughter & see what else I can find. Thanks
Hi Spyder, as a personal writing project I am writing about my historical scuba dives around Britain. I am planning to dedicate a chapter to the Centaur tanks and D7 bulldozers site off Selsey Bill on the South Coast of England, which I visited a few years back with the Nautical Archaeology Society dive club, of which I am a member. I am trying to find stories to include about: The men who made it to Juno Beach who supported the first waves (or arrived soon after) and operated either Centaur CS tanks of D7 bulldozers. Your dad's story is quite amazing and I was wondering if I could include it in my work? I envisage my writing project to be self-published within the next year. I am more than happy to run any writing past contributors to ensure appropriateness, and accuracy. Feel free to ask me any questions. Many thanks Duncan Ross
