Are we anti-German on this forum?

Discussion in 'Network Information, Suggestions and Feedback' started by Owen, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. ltdan

    ltdan banana counter

    If anyone is interested in my opinion on this:
    One should not confuse anti-German with anti-Nazi:
    I have not observed the former here (And I have been hanging around here for quite a while),
    the latter adorns every decent civilised person
     
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  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    First time I have seen this for a long while.
    Turkey were 2-1 up and Georgia had a corner in the 95th minute ( having missed a sitter a couple of minutes earlier) still time to equalise.
    The Georgian keeper all 6ft 5in of him came up to boss the 6 yard box and give an extra man.
    Georgian keeper stranded in the oppos goalmouth.
    Turkey keeper clears the corner straight to his teammate who runs up to the open goal and slots home to finish the game making it 3-1 to Turkey
     
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  3. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I didn't know this thread existed and so I am coming in late on this. Excuse me then if some of this has been covered before.

    1. No, I don't think we are "anti-German." We have several German members here who have made outstanding contributions to the site (they know who they are), and I have never heard them complain.
    2. If they have not complained, I believe it is because just about every regular member here, both non-German and German, knows that the Germany of 1933-1945 and the Germany of today are two very different things. Those who post here regularly say harsh things about Hitlerian Germany, but I have never read anything here suggesting that the German people are intrinsically evil and should be condemned as a whole. Since '45, the Germans have made a laudable and I think largely successful effort to confront their past and behave as responsible members of the international community.
    3. If you said that this site was anti-Nazi you'd be much closer to the mark. Again, every regular member I know of (German members definitely included) has shown their awareness of the ugliness of Nazism and of 20th century German military nationalism. The mods have been laudably alert to any manifestations of neo-Nazism here and have squelched same with great promptness. (Ta, Adam and Diane.)
    4. Between 1914 and 1945, Germany passed through the ugliest phase of its long history and inflicted terrible damage on its neighbors and minorities within its borders. That should be remembered and studied, yet the Germans are far from unique. Most nations have, at one time or another, gone through phases of militant imperialism and have also persecuted minorities. My own American nation, I regret to say, has done this, and so have Britain and France, fellow democracies which I otherwise admire. From what I can tell, the regular contributors here are well aware of these realities and nuances. I don't see any regulars here saying, "Oh, we Britons (Americans, Frenchmen, Australians, Canadians, South Africans, etc.) are God's chosen people with spotless histories while those Krauts are naturally rat bastards, etc." The regs on this site are (thank God) too good historians and too well read for that.
    5. None of this applies where football is concerned.
    6. DON'T MENTION THE WAR!
     
  4. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    "Are we anti-German on this forum?"

    Nein!

    Kind regards, bratwurst not bockwurst, always,

    Jim.
     
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Possibly, but I have a dual family history and I wasn't deterred from joining or posting. Unlike many who've posted on the forum in the past about a similar background, I entertain no shame for my relationship to one side (or indeed credit for the other) but I imagine that a family connection to service for the Nazi regime could be, in itself, an inhibiting factor for quite a few would-be researchers.

    Just as for the US side of things, we're not really geared up for research into Axis topics. It does happen, just not very often or as well-engaged as for Commonwealth topics. There are other forums and invariably people are re-directed to those. On the whole, I admire the Commonwealth niche our forum inhabits but IMO the absence of a wider Axis discussion leaves the Allied victories somewhat orphaned from the horrors & privations endured to achieve them.

    Post-hostilities my father certainly took the opportunity to make his feelings known when having to guard a selection of ardent Nazis imprisoned in the former POW camp his regiment had liberated. However, he didn't dismiss the SS units his battalion encountered whilst fighting in NWE as cowardly in a wholesale fashion. Too many of his comrades were killed in combat for that.

    To make it clear, I harbour no admiration for their cause or empathy for their efforts to impose it on others. I'm also not averse to taking the mickey when an opportunity arises. Yet, I'm reminded of a quote from Le Carré's Smiley: "After all, if you make your enemy look a fool, you lose the justification for engaging him."


    One forum example of "old enemies, now new friends" which reminded me slightly of my father's relationship with his father-in-law:

    In keeping with our Warts & All policy, a comment from a one-off contributor (def anti-Mett-eating Germans) :whistle::
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
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  6. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    Perhaps I'm falling foul of something a poster wrote on page 1 regarding oversensitivity, at least to a lesser degree.


    And I suppose in hindsight, the fact this site caters mainly for commonwealth countries means the odds of a German veteran's children/grandchildren coming on here to make enquiries is pretty slim.
     
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  7. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    Slightly off topic, but my Grandad served in a tank regiment in the war, and he bought or swapped (I've no way of knowing now), a beautfully hand worked metal cigarette case off a German POW. I have it in a chest at home along with his medals and other bits and bobs.
     
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  8. Christian Luyckx

    Christian Luyckx Well-Known Member

    I was raised by my (adoptive) grandfather. He was a former British Lance Corporal that had served as a Red Cap during WW2 and eventually settled in Belgium after the war. He first saw action with the 8th Army against Rommel’s Africa Korps in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia. After the campaign in North Africa, he was shipped back to England and eventually landed on Sword beach on June 6th 1944. Though he was quite tacit regarding what he had experienced back them, I still vividly remember one specific anecdote he once told me about.

    During the final offensive on Caen, he and his mates were in charge of evacuating captured Germans to the rear. Upon being captured, prisoners were triaged and grouped into three specific categories:

    · The first category (the majority of POWs in Normandy ; or at least in that sector) were common Wehrmacht soldiers and HiWi (Hilfswilliger, i.e. foreign auxiliary troops). For them, standard (Geneva convention) protocols applied. These men were usually somewhat older and, as long as they followed instructions and didn’t try to do ‘stupid things’, were treated decently.

    · The second category were the Waffen ^^ and miscellaneous other Nazi personnel. Those were considered as extremely dangerous. ‘No-one took any chances with that lot…’

    · Finally, there also was a third, quite atypical category of prisoners: Afrika Korps veterans. These German soldiers were easily identifiable by their tanned skin (the same pigmentation as my grandfather and his mates had at the time). It would seem a special bound existed between them and their British counterparts. Afrika Korps veterans were kept apart from the other POWs and enjoyed ‘special VIP-treatment’: they were provided with the same food as their British guards, were issued cigarette rations, were moved to the rear by lorry and were, whereas possible, shipped to England by passenger ship instead of cargo vessel. ‘They never gave us any trouble!’

    Bottom line: even in those days people were wise enough to differentiate Nazis form other Germans.
     
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  9. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I have a fair few German friends. (Always mildly puzzled by it statistically over other local countries. Maybe something to do with the 'Beer-drinking nations' theory).
    I occasionally call them Krauts and make sausage references. Maybe the odd accusation of them losing/expressing their country's warrior spirit. certainly an overuse of 'Alles ist in ordnung! With a moderate amount of shouting ALAAAAAAAARRRRM! when dithering occurs on leaving a gig or drinking establishment.
    'They occasionally accuse me of being obsessed with 'The fokkin war', make fußball references I don't follow, call our beer piss, don't understand why I refer to my dearest friends as Cs, & call me Basil Fawlty,among other to-and-fro.

    No offence is taken.
    Not a sausage (See what I did there...).

    No requirement to apologise for anyone's conduct during any war or historical event. (I have enslaved nobody. They have run no camps. etc.)

    All of us know the German Government & its extensions of '33-'45 behaved like abject Cs (In the true, cold, sense).
    There just isn't a need for old-fashioned & quite standard 'banter' (again, in its true sense rather than the more modern 'spotty misogynist' internet interpretation) to be taken too seriously in historical chat, whether light or heavy.
     
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  10. Red Jim

    Red Jim Well-Known Member

    I've only just discovered this thread, so coming late like TTH.
    In line with most posters on this thread, I'd certainly not regard myself as anti German, and I am certainly interested in hearing the perspective of the ordinary German veteran. It gives a more rounded view of the conflict.
    But I am an ardent anti Nazi, both the historical and contemporary kind ( I've been attacked and intimidated by NF/BNP types on more than one occasion), and the Nazi fanboys who the site every now and then attracts sicken me. Thankfully the Mods do a great job in shutting them down. Keep up the good work.
     
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  11. Andsco

    Andsco Well-Known Member

    Had a family reunion last week in which two Australian cousins were there who were quite funny in a way that only Aussies can be, Apparently a common Australian saying is "they're not a true friend if you haven't called then a C"
     
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  12. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    And rightly so for anyone with an interest in the early to mid-twentieth century. Perspectives are a product of one's time.

    Is that really applicable anymore? The seeds of National Socialism were a symptom of Germany's nervous breakdown in 1918/19, and by 1945 all remnants were erdaicated. The likelihood of a Freikorps appearing out of thin air in response to a Red revolution is highly improbable. One today might as well be an ardent anti-Bonapartist or an ardent anti-Whig.

    And what are Nazi Fanboys? I'm hoping it's not merely people with an interest in the Third Reich. If so that's ridiculous. We might as well start banning people with an interest in 20th-century communism if that's the case.
     
  13. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    I'm anti-magnetic - though some of my joints might argue with that :)

    Kind regards, in my cups, always,

    Jim.
     
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  14. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    And other country's governments around this time were not behaving likewise? Just out of interest, do you put the blame solely on a German government as the cause for WWII?
     
  15. Red Jim

    Red Jim Well-Known Member

    Michael, I don't want to get into modern politics as that is rightly banned on this forum but would make two points.
    Firstly if you don't think Nazis still exist I don't know if you have watched the UK news in the last few weeks but we've just had Nazis rioting on the streets here. Unfortunately they do still exist.
    Secondly by Nazi fanboys, I don't mean people who have a legitimate interest in Nazi Germany, the rise of the Nazis etc, as I include myself in that group. I mean the sort of people who sometimes appear on this site, who for example sing the praises of the Waffen SS whilst ignoring their atrocities, the " weren't the SS cool" brigade. Sickos in my opinion.
     
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  16. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    Jim. I think the modern usage of Nazi has no bearing on the NSDAP, and the period in question. I would look on the people who took part in rioting a couple of weeks ago as racists (at least some of them), vandals, and brainless idiots.

    Regarding the Waffen SS. I think it's worth making distinctions. Some were highly effective combat units. Others like the Totenkopfverbände were a different kettle of fish. It can't be right that all Waffen SS vets should be labelled as murderous antisemites, surely.
     
  17. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    I do not have a problem with Germolene it is very useful for scrapes,cuts and insect bites although it does have a distinctive smell it is also very warming.
    Although TCP does the same job it can also be gargled in the event of a sore throat an added bonus is that it can also cover the smell of piss when you get older.
     
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  18. Red Jim

    Red Jim Well-Known Member

    We'll have to agree to disagree.
     
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  19. Michael_

    Michael_ Member

    I don't understand that cryptic message, but I'm not looking to become banned if that is what's being insinuated.

    Well fair enough, Jim. And I hope I didn't come across as flippant in my responses. That wasn't my intention.
     
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  20. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    This is my 1930s West End Watch Co. "Sowar Prima" wristwatch. It has a shockproof non-magnetic Longines movement. One of the few wristwatches of that era that don't command "collector's" prices.

    West End Sowar.jpg
     
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