Are we anti-German on this forum?

Discussion in 'Network Information, Suggestions and Feedback' started by Owen, Apr 11, 2010.

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  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Drew posted this comment , post #43 on this thread.
    Not wishing to hi-jack that thread I thought I'd start a debate in the forum feedback section.

    Many thanks for sharing, most interesting and good to see that not all Germans were 'bad eggs'. It is indeed rare and in my opinion a shame we do not get more accounts of battles from Germans and a shame we do not have any German vets as members on this site.

    I was recently sent a message from a member who was disillusioned with us on the forum as we seem to be anti-German.
    By that I don't mean we should be like other forums with the 'panzers are kewl' & 'I love the Waffen-SS' type threads & comments.
    BUT it seems we can't disscuss certain subjects without hatred & bile being spouted forth against anything German related.
    We have some members on here with German ancestry, I know they are afraid of talking about their relatives service as they are worried about the backlash.
    I think it's about time we were able to discuss German servicemen & what they did in the way in the same way as we are able to answer queries from members about their relatives service in any other Armed Forces in WW2.

    By the way I've started this thread without refering to my fellow Mods so I'm expecting alot of flak.

    These thougths have been nagging me for along time & a few comments from other members have made me want to start this discussion.

    One of my best mates has a German Grandmother, her father was a Senior NCO in the Luftwaffe.
    If he decided to ask questions on here about his Great-Grandad's service I feel he wouldn't get very far.

    I feel that as a forum we are anti-German......debate & discuss , please.
  2. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    YUP I cannot forget what they did
  3. AndyBaldEagle

    AndyBaldEagle Very Senior Member

    I would hope to think that I am not anti-German, and would read any threads etc posted with the same interest I do others. On the WW1 forum there have been some threads about german ancestors/relatives and they, as far I can see, have produced much interest of the view of the 'other side' as it were, and have introduced people to the horrors from the other side.

    Yes some people here might disagree with what they represented ( and I use that term deliberately) but to treat anyone who has posted, or be rude and offensive without at least taking some notice of the content is not on.

    Some on here may disagree with my thoughts/opinions, and yours Owen, but that is their right, as it is for me to maybe disagree with theirs.

    I hope that nothing I have said offends, if it does I apologise for that but not for me to say it.

    Regards to all


    (Now wheres that bubble wrap!)
  4. spidge


    I do not feel the forum is anti German persay however there are those who cannot forget some of the atrocities.

    We (the forum) have tried a couple of times (even when I was a mod) to accept some people and hear accounts of their parents and grandparents and found a lot of denial on their part.

    A Mother and Son comes to mind where I think we tried very hard to accommodate their points of view however it fell over due to those on both sides not prepared to accept certain issues.

    The mods have to ensure that one or two people's view's do not overpower any threads or they have the ability to get out of control.


  5. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron


    And just when I'd began to feel really comfortable on this site :)

  6. Peter Clare

    Peter Clare Very Senior Member

    If you read this introduction from my contribution to the BBC's Peoples War then maybe you will understand my feelings on this subject

    BBC - WW2 People's War - My father.

    I was born in Stoke-on-Trent in December 1941. Mum Nellie, was a shop assistant, dad, Seymour 'Bill' was in the RAF, a Flight Engineer with 120 Sqn Coastal Command. I was eight months old when he was killed in August 1942. Mum last saw dad when she said goodbye to him at the station after his last leave, the next she had, was a telegram saying he was missing from operations, a few weeks later another telegram arrived saying "Missing believed killed". They had been married just under two years. And that was was all she was told. As I grew up without a father I would ask questions about him, what was he like, what did he do, how tall was he, what was his favorite food, did he smoke or drink? All these questions could be answered by my mum and the family, but there was one question that could not be answered,"How did he die?" About twenty years ago I decided to find out for myself and my mum what had happened, this was the days before the computer. I wrote to many organisations and newspapers asking for help, and over the years was able to trace three of the survivors of the crash in which my dad was killed. The three were able to give me a full account of the events of that day which I added to my own research.
    Mum always wanted to know what had happened and I was pleased I was able to tell her before she passed away in 1997. Mum never remarried, in fact, she stayed in the house she was married from, I was born in, and she died in. I always thought she believed dad would come home one day.
  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Good thread Owen, although I think I already know where it will go.

    The account that Jane posted in pdf format, if it is to be believed and I have no reason not to believe it, just goes to show that some German soldiers were not the stereotype that many portray them to be. I have even read affidavits by British soldiers where they were treated like human beings by SS troops let alone the wehrmacht.

    Whilst the beliefs of Nazism should and rightly so, attract the most strongest language of condemnation but that doesn't mean that every individual German on the frontline stood for those ideals.

    I volunteered and went to war in Iraq in 2003. I put my life on the line for 5 months and risked everything dear to me on a lie that at the time I believed was true and the war was a just cause, at the very least it cost me my marriage and possibly my career in the Police. Hardly a day goes by where I don't think of Sapper Allsop who was executed down the road from me, shot in the back of the head on a street in Al-zubayer. Whats not to say that, that didn't happen with some Germans, that what they thought they were doing at the time of going to war was the right thing?

    In short, I wish there were German Veterans on here to hear both sides of the story, for if we never hear what they have to say then all we are doing is presuming we know-After all isn't that what we do in a democracy?

    Sadly it will never happen though in my opinion.
  9. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    I like the Fokkers
  10. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Liar

    Im a rabid ANTI NAZI... RABID. I despiese everything they did.. But Not all Germans were guilty of war crimes per se, and a lot of them were drafted after years of indoctrination. I just get real tired of the younger kids who are gamers coming in ad nuaeuam and speaking of how great they were.. They were inovative in a lot of areas. but they were also pretty stupid. I dunno if i was going to go to war why kill off 6 million of youre people to me thats Man power for the fight... I cannot hate somone just for being a jew, black, asian, methodist, catholic. its just stupid. ANd i love hearing how great the panzers were when i see how many horses they used for transportation. it gives me a chuckle
  11. MLW

    MLW Senior Member

    Frankly, I think is is far more fair to say that there is less attention paid to the German Army (or any Axis Forces) in this forum than to the Allied Armies, and for me, I like it that way. There are already enough WWII discussion forums out there whose content is almost exclusively to devoted to the Third Reich. To me, those are the groups which are unbalanced in their treatment of the war. Regards, Marc
    urqh likes this.
  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I'm anti what the Nazi's did.
    I'm not Anti-German.

    This old post is pretty much still how I feel about the average Axis soldier:
    The hunt for the last Nazis.

    I'd like to see a German veteran or two here as well, but show me an Internet forum with lots of openly talkative German veterans. It doesn't exist to my knowledge. A forum that focuses mostly on the commonwealth side of things as we do (We like it that way don't we? 'World war 2 talk, a WW2 Internet research platform & discussion forum with a commonwealth focus' is our Google tagline after all) will naturally carry a few more strongly anti opinions. But it's just as uncommon to see German veterans on more axis focused forums.
    It's rare enough getting Allied veterans to chat online about the war, or sometimes at all - Former German Soldiers seem to have, on the whole, far less of a willingness to talk openly, for a variety of understandable and complicated reasons (Those that do correspond seem to do so on a far more discrete level).

    The 'Panzers R Kule' grouping are significant in Internet terms, and in my opinion don't help the balance at all. Many (perhaps particularly in America) seem to have become slavishly devoted to the German forces, with Barbara Cartland-esque romanticised accounts of German soldiers being too common. Those that seek too much to justify the unjustifiable darker areas of wartime Germany's activities do little service to decent history, & I think/hope you'll find a resistance to that among many sensible people with an interest in the war.
    There's lighter expressions of the Nazi Germany 'Fanclub', like the fact it's so much easier to get books on German technical stuff, or buy models of their machines, and then there's the extreme; the IHR, Neo-nazis, etc. Many that try to be more balanced on what happened from a German viewpoint often don't seem to realise the variety of lines there are to cross, and what a sensitive (even politicised) area it can be. We still ban Nazis from here on a regular basis - the ideology still has a pulse (even a uniform in one recent case!), and anyone wishing to tread honestly into sensitive areas should always be aware of that.
    Too many forums are dominated by the 'fanboys' and we seem to benefit from discouraging them somewhat - that does naturally sometimes create friction, but on the whole we have to take the rough with the smooth, and if someone's not taken the time to understand the culture here, and their interest is a serious one in the German forces, then there always seems to be a possibility of them getting offended. Though personally I can rarely see the point in getting offended by the Internet, and does anyone really expect another human being that was hurt personally by the war to change their viewpoint?
    The fact WW2 casts a long shadow should surprise no-one.

    One other problem is that those with a serious interest in the Axis can seem to have acquired an amount of oversensitivity after years of rubbing along with the Internet and history. We've had a few what I'd call oversensitive misunderstandings over the years (Perhaps a good example here). It seems to me that if one's chosen to study the 'Forces of the Reich', then one shouldn't be surprised by some of the anti opinion one will get.
    On the opposite side of that, I have sometimes thought, on some threads, it would be nice if we could just take it as read, understood, and regretted, that the evils of the period happened, and discuss them when they're specifically being discussed, as they're sometimes brought up in an almost knee-jerk way to the detriment of studying some other detail of the war. Oversensitivity, while entirely understandable, can cut both ways and be a distraction from historical enquiries.

    That's a long ramble, and I'm not entirely sure it's too lucid, but the subject interests me. Largely as I run this place.
    Speaking as the WW2Talk Admin - No, this forum itself is not anti-German. But I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone thought that some members weren't entirely understandably anti, and had good reason and justification for that personal stance.
    I'll do my best to encourage reasonable people that join whether they're German, British, Austrian, Japanese, Argentinean, or whatever.
    For a WW2 forum to officially discourage those with a German military interest or background would be ridiculous, and counter to discussing history.
    However, if they take offense at some perceived slight, or don't wish to engage with contrary opinions in a pleasant manner, or are bored with having the same old arguments, or even can't lucidly and politely make their own argument, then that's something we have no control over.

    Die gedanken sind frei - within certain bounds, and as long as one discusses those thoughts here in a chilled manner.

  13. ronald

    ronald Senior Member

    Ofcourse we are Anti-German, at least I am. The story about the good and the bad eggs is ridicoulous. I have not heard of good eggs here in
    Holland but I will ask my mother how many good eggs see met whilst walking from Rotterdam to the North of the Netherlands with her 12 years
    old sister because they had nothing to eat due to the Germans not letting
    food through to the west of Holland. You don't want to know how many
    times the Germans took the food of from those people if they were able
    to find a potatoe or piece of bread.
    This was a punishment for the railway strike at the day before Market Garden.
    I think there is a long list of crimes even from the moment they knew the
    war was lost.
    The same discussion is held here, there are some people who are willing to accept Germans at the Market Garden commemorations. How far can this go? Imagine Germans on the Airborne Cemetery whilst commemorating the
    fallen British and Polish soldiers.
    I think alot of us have parents/relatives who were involved in WW2 and after hearing their storys how can you be pro German??
    But despite of this, if people want to discuss German matters on this site,
    I don't mind, go ahead, I read what I want to read and skip other subjects.

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  14. Groundhugger

    Groundhugger Senior Member

    I have met many German people and almost all have been friendly and good mannered ,so I can't say I hate them ! then again I have never been under an oppressive Nazi/German Domination who would have eliminated my Identity and Nation.
    The British Have Invaded and annexed more Countries than any other Nation in the world and fought two World Wars to keep them . And the ramifications of those days are still being felt today . so its a bit like calling the kettle black !
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  15. marcus69x

    marcus69x I love WW2 meah!!!

    Interesting thread.

    It's crossed my mind once or twice too. It would be good to see more German Veterans about. Maybe they just don't like talking about their experiences for fear of abuse.

    I say welcome the lot. Would certainly be interesting reading their banter with our resident vets on here. :)
  16. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Liar

    Ill be flat out honest i offered to bring a HIGHLY decorated american vet into the forum but after some of the snotty ass comments and additudes i basicly told him dont bother.... This site is entirely too british oreintated and I dunno i saw nothing in when i first checked this site it was By brits for Brits.. im sure ill catch hell for this OH WELL
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  17. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    As has been said I think we're all Anti-Nazi but not necessarily Anti German. I would like to think that all are welcome and feel welcome.
    Ranger6 likes this.
  18. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Ill be flat out honest i offered to bring a HIGHLY decorated american vet into the forum but after some of the snotty ass comments and additudes i basicly told him dont bother.... This site is entirely too british oreintated and I dunno i saw nothing in when i first checked this site it was By brits for Brits.. im sure ill catch hell for this OH WELL


    May I recommend to you a book by one of your fellow countrymen, one Dale Carnegie ?

    It's called "How to win friends and influence people"



    Attached Files:

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  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    This site is entirely too british oreintated


    There's loads of general forums.
    There's a fair few specifically Axis related ones.
    Not that many that mostly focus on the British & commonwealth, and have a primarily British user base.
    Internet niches are a bit more interesting to me than generalism.

    The 'flavour' of this site is what it is, and I'm not sure it's worth reading more into it than that. It's a rather sweeping assumption to think that because people mostly talk about the Commonwealth nations here, they don't also have a wider appreciation of the other combatants.

    As for 'snottiness' (though I'd describe it as a certain dryness, or even cynicism).
    We are what we are ;).
  20. Ranger6

    Ranger6 Liar

    perhaps i should just leave....
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