Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, May 8, 2008.
Rock Island Auction: Lahti L-39 Anti-Tank Gun, Registered Destructive Device w/Case
Very useful for the bank holiday weekend
As an aside. Some years ago (about 1983, my notes are unfortunately lost) I came across a treatise on sniping relating to the Korean War. The USA carried out an extensive survey of potential snipers rifles - what was in service ("current doctrine"), field expedients and potential. They carried out field trials with a wide variety of ex 2WW Anti-tank rifles as sniper rifles. If I remember correctly the two favoured solutions were a Boys modified to fire a .50 HBMG round (M2HMG) and German PzB 39 - I can't remember the ammunition they recommended. The photos ranged from interesting to weird
I would love to have another read of that.
Gun Jesus produces another typically interesting ramble - on sniping with AT rifles. Well... Not sniping:
Why Antitank Rifles Were Not Sniper Rifles
Comments worth a read too.
The Roman Catholics are not the only church to have a pope! The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria for example is led by one.
A shortened version of the BOYS was produced for airborne use, the standard gun being too long for the containers but the blast and really ferocious recoil made it unusable
The East Surreys used them to good effect sinking German boats crossing the Escaut
I found this little snippet in the diary of the Director of Warlike Stores, War Office (Maj.-Gen. L.H. Williams C.B., M.C.) for January 1944 (in WO165/110), and immediately thought of this thread!
"Shortened Boys Rifle.
The shortened Boys Rifle, used by Airborne Formations, has ceased to be a requirement for this use, and stocks have been offered to and accepted by MO 1 (SP)."
Anyone have any idea as to who MO 1 (SP) were? Special Forces / supply to resistance?
Organisation and administration: MO1 (SP) (Military Operations 1 (Special Projects)):... | The National Archives
That's pretty... special.
A sort of combined operations arm of SOE that specialised in pin point sabotage and assassination work. Geoffrey Household (author of Rogue Male and other best sellers and who was what Ian Fleming would like to have been) was a leading (very dark) light. They developed the canoes for the cockle-shell heroes.
If 007 was licensed to kill their agents would be un-licensed, un-taxed and without insurance.
Fred Goatley was a boat designer employed by Saunders-Roe, East Cowes on the Isle of Wight. He started designing small, fast but strong boats as early as 1937 and when World War Two started he was keen to build on the success he had with these boats – the War Office had ordered 1000 of them.
Goatley met with Major Herbert ‘Blondie’ Hasler, the man who was to lead the Cockleshell Raid. Hasler told Goatley what he required for ‘Operation Frankton’ – a strong, light and collapsible canoe that had to carry a fair amount of equipment in waterproof storage compartments. The end result was the 15 feet collapsible ‘Cockle’ Mark II canoe built at the Folly Works in Whippingham near East Cowes.
That was the original design and was only called a cockle retrospectively. Hasler objected to the name cockleshell. The name tadpole was apparently considered. The design was handed over to MO(1) SP which eventually produced the Semi Rigid Canoe Mk3 which subsequently became known as the Cockle III. This is the type which featured in various commando raids in many theatres including the far east and generically referred to as cockleshells. The original boats were retrospectively designated as Cockle Is but were never so named when extant
See Quentin Rees,
The Cockleshell Canoes: British Military Canoes of World War Two
I will order it later today
To return the AT rifles. The shortened Boys was intended for airborne use but apparently never used due to it's excessive recoil. The PIAT and later model Bazookas (with the tube in two parts) fitted airdrop containers and had greater armour penetration. However both had their own drawbacks. The PIAT was a beast to lug around (in the past I've spoken to ex luggers who have confirmed this) and had a relatively short range. The back blast from the bazooka meant that it could be lethal to the user if fired from a confined space like a bunker or a room and gave away its position when used in the open. One could see that an AT rifle might still have an attraction for raiders intending to carryout ambushes and/or assassinations. It would be able to penetrate lightly armoured vehicles (like a bullet proofed car)
US Marines with Boys
Rifle, Anti-Tank, .55in, Boys "Boys Anti-Tank Rifle" - Tanks Encyclopedia
Separate names with a comma.