ANTILL, Leslie Reg# L/Cpl 5340538 1/4th Battalion Essex Regiment.

Hi, I am looking to be able to get documents and or records of my Uncle Les who fought with the Essex Regiment through to Greece. Any advice on how to access information will be greatly appreciated.

 

Craig,

Welcome aboard. Your uncle's name and number have not appeared here before your post.

Slight snag accessing his Service Record, which is the definitive record, it is not shown on The National Archives (TNA). That can mean it is still with the MoD or is being processed by the TNA - so best to start the process. They will answer where it is! You do not need his Service Number to apply. See: Get a copy of military records of service

Incidentally during WW2 some marriage certificates had the number added.

What documents do you have already?

His original regiment was the Royal Berkshire Regiment, From: Army Number Search He is not shown on the data available on their regimental museum's database: Search :: The Wardrobe

That is easy to explain. He was transferred to another unit during WW2. There was a shortage of infantry soldiers in the Italian campaign, which led to transfers and units disbanded. His record will show that and when it happened.

Meantime Wiki states, with my bold:

From: Royal Berkshire Regiment - Wikipedia

No other Berkshire battalions served in North Africa / Italy.

There is a short passage on the 1/4th in: Essex Regiment - Wikipedia Yes, they served in North Africa, Italy and finally Greece - not with the 56th Division.

You are in luck that one member, Charley Fortnum, has a special interest in 1/4 Essex and I am sure he will be along.

If you are convinced the 1/4th was his unit then an online search with: "1/4th essex" site:ww2talk.com will identify a good number of threads to read. A search with: "1/4 essex" site:ww2talk.com found a similar number, there will be duplicates.

 

Craig welcome to the forum
Link here explains what you need to do to apply for his records.
There is a long wait time.
Read it through its not complicated.
You will require date of birth and his death cert
Get a copy of military records of service

 

Thanks so much for your response and tips. Exactly the help and start I was looking for. Looks like I will need a copy of his death certificate to be able to apply for the records as he was born after 1910 (1916). I have managed to find a few articles on the locations of the 1/4 Essex Battalion through the war and this matches with the brief stories I heard, North Africa, Italy and then Greece at which point he became a conscientious objector as they were having to fight the communist partisans. He was then I believe transferred from infantry to intelligence.

 

Craig,

We do have an expert on the Greek Civil War, so he: gmyles can help hopefully.

See his post in: 4th Indian Division Royal Artillery It mentions references on pg.1 for the divisional history; yes, the focus is on the artillery units with the division.

I slightly puzzled that as a conscientious objector due to fighting the Communist partisans he moved from the infantry to the sensitive role of intelligence, unless he was shipped out. The move could have been within his battalion, rather than to the Intelligence Corps. Did the family know he had leanings that way politically?

There is a thread on 1/4th in Greece, that shows when they were there: 1/4 Essex Regiment MInus where they served though. My recollection is the the 4th Indian Division did not serve in Athens, where much of the earlier, initial fighting occurred.

Try an online search with: "4th Indian Division" + "greece" site:ww2talk.com

 

Yes, from very working class, poor London background, so very pro communist at that time. This was obviously all before the introduction of the Welfare state and NHS post war. Yes, I think transfer would have been an internal transfer "where can we move this guy" to whatever non-combat role they had as he refused to fight against them. My grandmother always thought it was hilarious that he was in 'Intelligence'. They had been in almost continual combat for over 2.5 year in and across North Africa and all the way up Italy by that point. With the war over he refused to fight against the resistance who had just finished fighting the Germans.

Here is some info i have on the battalion movements there

"The next move was on 7 December 1944 when the Battalion sailed for Greece to support the small British contingent around the port of Piraeus. The next month saw a number of engagements in the Athens peninsula with Greek resistance fighters who supported factions opposed to the new Government set up once the German evacuated from Greece. Short term bases included Kifisia, Portaria, Leehonia and Edhessa which is where the battalion celebrated VE Day with a service to honour their colleagues lost since entering the war at El Alamein in 1941.

They remained in Greece dealing with armed bandits while the Greek Army was being formed and trained and by 1946 duties were more guard duty with many of the men released back to civilian life"

 

1/4 Essex would put him at Cassino for the Second and Third Battles - Feb-Mar 44. Whilst they were portering in the Second Battle, they were fully committed in the Third Battle where they had the gruesome task of getting to and then holding The Castle. They even sent two Companies on to Hangman’s Hill to support a very depleted 1/9 GR.

The Royal Anglian Regiment - a fine organisation, have erected a superb monument at The Castle to the men of 1/4 Essex who fought there.

If you have not seen it and would like a photo I am there on Thursday guiding a group. I will happily take a photo and send it to you.

Regards

Frank
www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk

 

Work awaits, but I'll be in touch before too long.

I'm able to provide all the unit's movements and
we'll see what we can figure about your uncle specifically—a distinctive surname helps!

 

Hi Craig

Only after you have received your Uncle Les's service records from the MOD/TNA, can you accurately establish a timeline showing where he went, when and with which unit ( or in Les's case units).

Once you have this I will be more than happy to help, if it does turn out he was in Greece in late 44 early 45.

Gus

 

That would be amazing thank you!

 

Thanks. I need to order his death certificate from New Zealand and then understand it can take quite a while once you apply for the records.

 

The only other things I remember him saying was him acting out/lobbing a hand grenade and also (unsure if in reference to Cassino or later towards the end) was knowing it (the battle/war) was over when they got over and could see the whole valley wide open before them.

 

Hi Craig, welcome.

I had a quick look and the only Medal Card I can find for a Leslie Antill is this one. Apologies for the blurred image, but I’ve not got membership of the sites that provide a clearer one.

The service number on this card is 5340528, though, not 5340538, but strange all the same, just ten digits between the two Leslies! Also a L/Cpl.



Birth year clearly wrong too, though, although that could simply be wrong transcribing by Ancestry…



(both images from Ancestry)

 

Thanks that is great! This is definitely him. I have cross checked his birth record from the 1921 census and birth records and I had it down wrong originally. His birth year was 1919 not 1916. The two service numbers both check to the Royal Berkshire regiment originally. So looks like he would have been transferred from the Royal Berkshire to the Essex regiments as part of their strength rebuilding/or during for Italy campaign as his medal sheet shows he did not qualify for Africa Stars.

 

I was also able to download the full clear image from Fold3

 

Clear medal card.

 

I found this a few years ago and noted '38' in my records.

 

I see 5340538 on the obituary too, so if that is his medal card, I’m curious as to why the two different numbers?

 

I think it is most likely just a mistake when the obituary was requested for the newspaper. That is where I had originally got it from.

 

Ahhh, that’d explain it.