Anti-Tank Regiment Questions

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Thundergrunt, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    The Keep is run by the Devon and Doughnuts, the merged county regiment for Devon and Dorset prior to their absorption by the Rifles. The museum has loosely misinterpreted the affiliation of the Corps Anti Tank Regiment for an particular operation as "part of 43 Wessex," probably to emphasis the regional link to the county regiment - ;) 43rd Wessex Division's actual Anti-tank Regiment originated from a different Wessex county - the 59th (6th Bn. The Hampshire Regt.) Anti-Tank Regt., Royal Artillery. This is less interest to the Keep, which has no geographic interest in the Hampshire Regiment which merged with the Queen's Regiment from the Southern Home Counties to form "Squidgies own" - The Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment.

    They are absolutely correct to point out that the 86th Antri tank Regiment was converted from a battalion of the Devonshire regiment. For all of the fuss made about the Regimental system, during the second world whole units might be transferred from corps to another. In 1939 the British raised far more infantry units than could be supported with other arms in a balanced army. Infantry battalions were turned into armoured and artillery units of various types, the Cavalry had long become gunners and tankies. To complete the cycle at the end of the war lots of artillery units were turned back into infantry - but mot always the same units. Some of these converted units retained a strong connection to their original cap badge and called themselves something like XY Anti tank/Light AA Regiment (The Zth battalion the Loamshire) Royal Artillery. Others did not, and their veterans might never even recall they were other than XYZ Regiment.

    Hmm must look at the in tray...
     
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  2. JBaron

    JBaron Member

    Hi

    I visited the museum last year but as I suspected, it didn't shed any light on why my Grandfather ended up in the Devonshire Regiment (although it was a lovely place to visit).
    From what I can read on the attached form, he enlisted to the Lancashire Fusiliers, transferred to the Manchesters and then ended up in the 86th. The last 3 years are missing from his records.

    Are you saying that he wouldn't have fought with the 43rd Wessex at Hill 112?
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Not at all. I am just nitpicking about the loose terminology. The 86th Anti tank regiment was in support of the 43rd Wessex Division and for the attack on Hill;112, individual batteries and troops were placed under command of 43 Division - but it wasn't part of it.Its soldiers did not wear the 43 Wessex Wyven shoulder flash. They were outside specialists.

    Your Grandfather joined the TA in 1938 6th lancashire Fusiliers, but transferred to 2/9th Manchester Regiment. This was converted 88th Anti tank Regiment in November 1941, and joined 49th Division as their anti tank Regiment in mid 1942 - presumably after their conversion training. For some reason the Army replaced 88th Anti tank Regiment with 55th (Suffolk Yeomanry) Anti tank in July 1943, and the 88th joined the 45th Division, which did not deploy outside the UK. Had his unit remained in 49th Division he would have most likely ended up in Normandy but as few miles west of Hill 112 instead, and you would be asking about the battle of Rauray not Hill112.
     
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  4. Scribler

    Scribler Member

    I have just come across the note that 86th Anti-Tank Regiment was not a part of 43rd Wessex, which is of course correct. Their origins were as 5th (Prince of Wale's) Battalion the Devonshire Regiment and had been in 43rd Wessex division since the division's formation in 1908, until conversion to gunners (no comment!) in 1941 and becoming XII Corps troops. At Hill 112 10 July 1944, they were dethatched from XII Corps (still arriving in theatre) to VIII Corps and came under command of 43rd Wx.
    Even though they had left the regiment their vehicles and guns bore the Devon Regiment badge and the regimental dance band was called the Devonaires. They got away with this by pointing out that Yeomanry regiments were able to preserve their heritage in a variety of ways including name, items of dress and custom.
     
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  5. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Did the Corps Anti-Tank Regiments have a dedicated tactical role? I have always assumed that they were just intended to be "gap fillers" to be allocated to areas where the defence was thin, or where enemy pressure was particularly strong.
     
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  6. ceolredmonger

    ceolredmonger Member

    Don Juan. You suspect correctly - they were a Corps asset to fill gaps and be an emergency backstop. They were also available to beef up attacks especially during consolidation to cover against counter attack or cover flanks. Like most Anti Tank Regts. they would usually be farmed out in sub-units and be 'under command'.
     
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  7. Would anyone know how to find out what battery in the 86th anti tank someone was in? My Grandfather was injured in the fighting around hill 112 (lost his leg). He was originally a Churchill tank commander in the hussars but was transferred to the 86th I’m assuming to command the M10s they were issued with prior to Normandy. I know that he was injured by air burst mortar on the morning of the 10th or 11th July but would love to pinpoint what troop or even which vehicle/position he was in at the time.

    any help would be greatly appreciated
     
  8. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I think if you obtained his service records it might say directly which battery he was in. Alternatively the war diary of the regiment might mention him by name in the context of a battery, if he was an officer?
     
  9. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Since your grandfather was wounded he will appear in the Casualty Lists, these often give the Battery as well as the Regiment. Casualty Lists are in Find My Past - if you don't have access and care to give his name someone will check for you.

    Tim
     
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