Another grandad, WILLIAM GEORGE CRUMPLIN, British army, 1885 to 1895

Discussion in 'Prewar' started by Ednamay, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. Ednamay

    Ednamay wanderer

    I know this is a WW2 site and I acknowledge that I have had a great deal of help here with my two uncles.

    Now I have a 19th century problem; their father, my grandfather WILLIAM GEORGE CRUMPLIN was in the British army from 1885 to 1895 (roughly) and served part of his time in India.X All papers disappeared when my g.mother died so I have no other information, apart from the fact that he was born in 1867.X I have been stumbling around various sites with no success so far. Any suggestions where I might start looking, please?

    Edna
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Edna have split this from another thread to one of its own, in Prewar.

    Shame about the papers, best of luck with the research.
     
  3. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Edna,

    I have just conducted a search for records on findmypast.co.uk, which has digitised copies of WO 97 the Chelsea Pensioners' British Army Service Records 1760-1913, and WO 96 Militia Attestation Papers, and found only two records for the period 1892 +/- 22 years for a William Crumplin. Neither of which seem to fit. (I can send you copies if you wish).

    I have searched Ancestry, which although it turned up quite a few W Crumplin's, which I can send you details for, only gave one William George:
    Name:William George Crumplin
    Estimated Birth Year:abt 1896
    Age at enlistment:19
    Residence:The Lodge Boughgh Court, Winchfield Hants
    Document Year:1915
    Regimental Number:19114
    Regiment Name:Royal Welsh Fusiliers
    Number of images:21

    Mark
     
  4. grunson

    grunson Member

    Now I have a 19th century problem; their father, my grandfather WILLIAM GEORGE CRUMPLIN was in the British army from 1885 to 1895 (roughly) and served part of his time in India.X All papers disappeared when my g.mother died so I have no other information, apart from the fact that he was born in 1867.

    I had a look around Ancesty and the most likely candidate I could find for a William George Crumplin was born two or three years earlier than that. I can't place him in the army, although he doesn't seem to be in England in the 1891 census at first glance. Trouble is that the British Army overseas doesn't appear in the 1891 census.
     
  5. Ednamay

    Ednamay wanderer

    Thanks to you both. I have managed to acquire a few further items from cousins - his probable date of birth was 1865, it is possible he was born William Eggar and William Crumplin was his stepfather.
    His son, also William, is already listed on this forum (not the William Crumplin above, that was another cousin!) and he was killed in France in 1914.
    This problem of son after son being William presents further problems!
    Edna
     
  6. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    Edna,

    Just thinking out load here,

    I assume he was not an officer so its no good looking through Harts Army lists.

    have you thought of going via the medal rolls for the various campaigns.

    The 2 most likely are the Egypt medal from 1882 - 1889
    the only other 1 that he is likely to have received if in India is the:

    India General service Medal 1854-1895.

    In particular with emphesis on the following Bars:
    Burma 1985-87
    Sikkim1888
    Hazara 1888
    burma 1887-89
    Chin Lushai 1889-90
    Samana 1891
    Hazara 1891
    N.E. Frontier 1891

    It is not as daunting as it looks as most of the troops for most of the bars were Indian Regiments.

    The pensions route is also a good opportunity.

    Alternately rebuild the tree from your grandmothers, dont look for him, look for who was with him wife.child,mother etc on the census.

    I hope this has helped in some small way

    Regards

    Simon
     
  7. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Edna,

    I have just taken Assam's suggestion on board, and looked at the UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 database on Ancestry and came up with the following:

    Name:W Crumplin
    Campaign or Service:Second Egyptian War
    Service Date:1882
    Service Location:Egypt
    Regiment or Unit Name:Commissariat Transport Staff

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Both of the above images relate to the one person and medal. The second image shows where the medal was sent at the time of distribution.

    Name:W Crumplin
    Campaign or Service:Sudan
    Service Date:1884-1886
    Service Location:Sudan
    Regiment or Unit Name:Commissariat

    [​IMG]

    They are the only W Crumplin's on the database. There were none for India.

    Mark
     
  8. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    Great work Mark,

    regards

    simon
     
  9. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Amazing the torturous routes taken to help out with members enquiries - well done!
     
  10. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    Ok,-

    Well we have established a couple of things here, Crumplin received to Egypt Medal with the bars "The Nile 1884-85" & "Abu Klea" & of course the Khedieves Star.

    Am I right in reading that he was Captain & Quarter Master, if so, would there be an entry in "Harts" for him???

    Regards

    Simon
     
  11. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    In The New Annual Army List, etc. for 1881 (Available on http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk) he is shown as being first commissioned on 11 Dec 1878, and was appointed to C&T Staff on 31 Jan 1880, and was a member of the Army Service Corps.

    I have attached a PDF of the relevant page.

    Mark

    View attachment Army List 1881.pdf
     
  12. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    dbf likes this.
  13. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    I have just looked for William Crumplin in WO 338/22 Index to Old Personal Numbers, A-Z, from the National Archives website, and could not find him there.

    Mark
     
  14. Ednamay

    Ednamay wanderer

    Thank you for all your work - however, I don't think my grandfather was an officer.

    My cousin has found a photograph of him (sorry, no scanner), wearing what looks like a dress uniform, a tunic (possibly red - lighter than trousers) with six large brass buttons, an edge trim, high collar, epaulettes, cuffs and a webbing belt. He has a sort of forage cap with what looks like a ribbon edging and possibly a long ribbon hanging from the back, with an unbalanced figure 8 badge. If the buttons were round about one inch, the bottom of the badge would be about 2 inches. Also a silver topped cane. This was posed in a studio.

    Among my mother's postcards, I found one of him in ?tropical ?work uniform; Lightweight / light coloured tunic and trousers, long sleeves, breast pockets, 5 buttons, turn down collar and epaulettes, no cuffs. The hat is very dark (?black ?navy blue). with two quite large (noticeable) buttons on the front. This is outdoors but the foreground is unclear and the background is unidentifiable shrubbery.

    I don't know whether this gives any idea of regiment or whatever, but the pictures were a surprise, the face had a moustache, but the shape was a 'family face' if you know what I mean, with resemblances to other younger members.
     
  15. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Edna, any chance at all of a scanned image???

    Doing that research was fun, and I learned some more search tricks.

    Mark
     
  16. Ednamay

    Ednamay wanderer

    Edna, any chance at all of a scanned image???

    Doing that research was fun, and I learned some more search tricks.

    Mark

    Sorry, Mark, I don't have a scanner - nor the expertise!

    Edna
     
  17. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    That's a shame!!

    Mark
     
  18. Groundhugger

    Groundhugger Senior Member

    Hello Edna
    I always found the local library very helpful , they will usually do a scan for you ! might need a memory stick to put it on , or SD memory card , or old fashioned 31/2 " discette

    John
     
  19. Ednamay

    Ednamay wanderer

    Hello Edna
    I always found the local library very helpful , they will usually do a scan for you ! might need a memory stick to put it on , or SD memory card , or old fashioned 31/2 " discette

    John

    Thanks. Sent pm. Have a photo of grandfather from my cousin, could I send it to you snailmail, please?

    Edna
     

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