...and Facebook still refuses to stop the Graverobbers

We all have different views on battlefield excavation, and I know several members of the forum are involved in legitimate, respected groups that do it carefully, respectfully and fully notify the authorities.

For a long time I've asked Facebook to shut down the highly offensive group on Facebook that uploads these sort of images.
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/403167_296503250398923_1717147156_n.jpg

I won't sugar coat it, they excavate battlefields, find bodies, loot them, then rebury them in unmarked graves never telling the authorities.

They then sell on all personal effects/weapons/relics found arguing that the, this is a ridiculously crazy quote, "Body is only the vessel of the soul" and thus they are in the right morally.

Facebook refuses to take them down, and these guys excavate all over from Greece, Russia, Ukraine, Crete, Belgium...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/WW1-WW2-Relic-hunting-Excavation-on-battlefields/161035087279074

Just fell that the image of the German soldier in a plastic bag awaiting 'burial' no doubt in a skip, well... something has to be done.

 

It is disgraceful. I was interviewed by the Times re this but I doubt very much will change unless governments act.

 

I agree that grave-robbing is dispicable. But, I've always wondered when grave-robbing becomes archeology. What is the difference between opening a grave from the WWII era as opposed to one from some earlier period, say ancient Egypt? Is it a matter of profit margin, the possiblity living decendants or the way in which the remains are handled? Again, I am in no way condoning the practice, I was just curious.

 

I'd sadly agree there, I contacted the DM about it a while ago but they never got back in contact. Personally with all the Anniversaries approaching you'd think that the relevant groups would want to do something - but I guess a wider public outcry would be needed for this to happen.

 

I agree that grave-robbing is dispicable. But, I've always wondered when grave-robbing becomes archeology. What is the difference between opening a grave from the WWII era as opposed to one from some earlier period, say ancient Egypt? Is it a matter of profit margin, the possiblity living decendants or the way in which the remains are handled? Again, I am in no way condoning the practice, I was just curious.

I think the issue is how you treat the body afterwards.

I doubt proper archeologists dig up an iron-age grave and just discard the body in a skip.

All the best

Andreas

 

Archeology requires a higher standard when there is the distinct possibilty that the deceased has living relatives. To my mind, that is what separates this activity from more dated historical digs.

 

Absolutely and with more modern archaeology there are rules and laws which have to be obeyed. I've been present at the excavation of several soldiers on WW1 battlefields; the archaeologists were not specifically looking for them but they are a reality of battlefield archaeology.

The sort of people who engage in the activities described on pages like this are not archaeologists they are quite simply graves robbers and criminals.

 

Its an absolute disgrace whichever side you are coming from. That soldier bagged up is a missing casualty from a battle whatever way you want to look at it. He may have family that wondered what happened to him, family that grieved for him, he is owed that much that is family knows where he fell and can have him buried with honour.

 

This sort of thing makes my blood boil!

Whenever human remains are discovered then all possible efforts should be made to look for items which will identify the soldier.

Surely the most rewarding thing about such ‘relic hunting’ is to be able to identify a soldier who can then be given a decent burial and his family informed so he can be brought home with dignity.

These people disgust me.

 

I have stumbled across that site previously. I did send a message to FB as well. Doubt they will do anything about something that does not involve racism or nudity!

 

When FB don't act there's one thing you can do.

Start an 'anti' FB group to highlight this despicible act and gain momentum from user numbers and interest.

 

Truly awful.

Is this a publicly viewable facebook site, or a closed group?

I'm surprised the press havent picked up on it.

Pete

 

That is such a horrible thing to do. Hope Facebook removes the page and all links. Very disgraceful.

 

Slightly puzzled as to what it really has to do with Facebook though.

Well they are hosting this group Adam so they do have some responibilty surely?

I don't know what the laws are in some of the countries listed but I do know what it is in Belgium. There, you in all likelihood going to come across British bodies and if you remove any chance of identifying the remains it's just like killing them all over again.

Is it right to let a group practice in such a way using a platform that is free to access and free to promote something like that?

 

I was previously temporarily banned from Facebook for asking them to remove that page after complaints from their members. Its publically viewable and they also boast of their findings, also many of the relics they find appear to be in rather 'good' condition and would likely fall foul of many firearms laws in these countries...

There are images of them in Arnhem with British paratrooper helmets, and in Crete with British infantry equipment... so its not just 'Jonny Foreigner' who is affected by this

 

I discovered this Facebook page, yesterday, via Facebook and was totally shocked by it. Not only are they robbing the dead of the chance of a named burial, but they are putting themselves and more importantly others in danger of serious harm. I would not like to be the neighbour of someone building a collection of unexploded ordnance!

I have also sent a complainant to Facebook and look forward with interest to being
banned......

 

There are many ID tags available on Ebay and other auction sites. Not all of these will be ground dug and taken from bodies, but those that are will be removing the identity of a dead soldier. I wonder whether the auction sites realise (or care?).

 

We all have different views on battlefield excavation, and I know several members of the forum are involved in legitimate, respected groups that do it carefully, respectfully and fully notify the authorities.

For a long time I've asked Facebook to shut down the highly offensive group on Facebook that uploads these sort of images.
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/403167_296503250398923_1717147156_n.jpg

I won't sugar coat it, they excavate battlefields, find bodies, loot them, then rebury them in unmarked graves never telling the authorities.

They then sell on all personal effects/weapons/relics found arguing that the, this is a ridiculously crazy quote, "Body is only the vessel of the soul" and thus they are in the right morally.

Facebook refuses to take them down, and these guys excavate all over from Greece, Russia, Ukraine, Crete, Belgium...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/WW1-WW2-Relic-hunting-Excavation-on-battlefields/161035087279074

Just fell that the image of the German soldier in a plastic bag awaiting 'burial' no doubt in a skip, well... something has to be done.


As long as they are posting 'stuff', helmets, rounds, etc.
probably not much can be done.

I was just thinking disturbing human remains without government authorization
is probably a crime in almost every country..

maybe you could try the illegal activity angle..

 

Bearing in mind that Christmas is just around the corner, it probably will not go anywhere, but I have just sent an email to the Telegraph pointing out this Facebook page. I will let Forum Members know if I get a reply. May be I should have notified the Sun.....

Every time I look at the photo in Swiper's original post, even if the remains are those of a Nazi German, they belonged to a Human Being and how can this be right!