American Troops In Britain

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Jackienock, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    Back in the early forties I was at boarding school and during my time there a number of American troops were billeted in some of the outlying school buildings. We got on well with them and were always cadging chewing gum.

    Much later after D-Day, one lone soldier returned, he told some of us boys that all the men who had been billeted at the school, apart from himself, had been killed on the beach.

    I have often wondered if it was true and also which units they actually were, a thing I never took much notice of as a lad.

    I had occasion to visit Omaha Beach last month and wondered if that was the place where it happened.

    Does anyone know of a source where the names of American units in WW2 are listed and where they were billeted
     
  2. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    As far as I know there is no single source, apart from USAAF units in 8th AAF. An additional problem is that, as with all armies, some units changed location a number of times, particularly in the run up to D-day as they moved down into the "sausages", or holding areas for the units taking part.

    You do not say where the school was, but somebody might have the information and make the connection. Also, do you have any idea what type of unit it was? For instance, do you remember tanks, artillery, or signals equipment? And roughly how many?

    If what you were told is true, it is most likely that it was Omaha, as the casualties at Utah were very light in comparison.
     
  3. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    Further to my query.

    The school is at Stourbridge in the West Midlands.

    I can only remember that there were lorries and I think Bren Gun Carriers.

    The men all went off to manouvres somewhere for two or three weeks and then returned with all the vehicles caked in mud.

    They had slogans scrawled on the sides of the trucks. I can still remember one.

    " No Gum Chum but we Got Chocolate"

    I suppose on reflection that there probably weren't more than fifty or so men.

    Later still, after the first lot had gone, they were followed by black GI's, who were equally as friendly to us lads, perhaps even more so.
     
  4. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Well, they weren't likely Americans, if they were using Bren carriers. The Americans didn't use Bren carriers or the Bren gun. They might have been Canadians. The black troops would have been likely from an engineers unit or a quartermaster truck company.
     
  5. Clive Harris

    Clive Harris Junior Member

    The 82nd Airborne were billeted in the Midlands prior to going overseas, I believe this was more around the Eats Midlands though, I work as a battlefield guide and I had a lady from Leicester who came on a recent Arnhem Trip I was guiding because as a schoolgirl she had dated men of the 82nd... she spoke fondly of hiding on the way home from school so they wouldn't see her in her school uniform!

    The Bren gun carriers as you suggest however are far more likely to be used bythe 3rd Canadian Division.
     
  6. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    There is absolutely no doubt at all that my men were Americans.

    Maybe my description of Bren Gun Carrier is incorrect. They were quite small tracked vehicles that seemed to be everywhere you went at that time and they moved quite quickly.

    They also drove Willis Jeeps and played Baseball (Well, softball actually) Small boys could be heard uttering phrases like, "OK Let's Go", "Pitch to me there Johnnie Boy" and "Everybody Walks". STRIIIIKE ONE!!!!! I particularly remember those that came from Utah and Texas.

    How long have they been in CANADA?

    YES, THEY WERE DEFINITELY AMERICANS.
     
  7. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Jackienock@Nov 15 2004, 01:38 PM
    There is absolutely no doubt at all that my men were Americans.

    Maybe my description of Bren Gun Carrier is incorrect. They were quite small tracked vehicles that seemed to be everywhere you went at that time and they moved quite quickly.

    They also drove Willis Jeeps and played Baseball (Well, softball actually) Small boys could be heard uttering phrases like, "OK Let's Go", "Pitch to me there Johnnie Boy" and "Everybody Walks". STRIIIIKE ONE!!!!! I particularly remember those that came from Utah and Texas.

    How long have they been in CANADA?

    YES, THEY WERE DEFINITELY AMERICANS.
    [post=29476]Quoted post[/post]
    Canadians have been playing baseball almost as long as United States of Americans. It's the third sport there after hockey and curling. Canadian POWs in Hong Kong played baseball against their Japanese captors and beat them, so the Japanese never played them again. So on those grounds, combined with the Bren carrier, they could have been Canadians. But if you identified the vehicle wrong -- maybe it was a White M3 halftrack -- they could be from south of the 49th parallel.
     
  8. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    I appear to be being quizzed on what is a technicality, not only on my vehicle identification but now on my knowledge of who plays what.

    Let's face it, it was sixty years ago and memories do become distorted. I was about eleven at that time and the vehicle part of it may have become dim in my mind.

    To be fair, at times, there were British troops around and it could be that through time my memory has put the Yanks in the Bren gun carriers. Those vehicles were definitely thick on the ground.

    However, everything else that I have stated is perfectly true and there is still no doubt that the men at my school were Americans.

    Going back to my original topic I would still like to know who they were.

    Also in answer to another point when I said, "killed on the beach", I was referring to the D-Day landings, not an exercise in training.
     
  9. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Lts start extracting a few facts here.

    First, there were less than 50 or so, so roughly a platoon size unit.

    From the description, they could have been infantry or combat engineers, both of whom took part in the initial landings when the casualties were highest.

    For only one to survive the beach, it had to be Omaha.

    The front line assault units were 16th Infantry Regimantal Combat Team (1st Div) and 116th Infantry Regimental Combat Team (29th Div), plus tanks, engineers, artillery, Rangers and, at H+180 onwards, amphibious truck companies and naval salvage teams.

    A platoon size unit would likely be part of a larger formation based in the same locality, so the next task is to try and track down what units were in the locality then which match the above criteria.

    Local newspapers and record offices might have information.

    Another line of enquiry if the school still exists is to see what records they have. They might be unhelpful though. I approached Clifton College in Bristol seeking information about HQ 1st US Army, which was based there in 1943/44 and got nowhere.
     
  10. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    Hello Angie999

    Thank goodness, some sensible information at last.

    Somewhere in my own archives I still have some old school magazines and it struck me only today that maybe, just maybe, there is something in one of those that might give an indication as to the origins of the unit.

    My school is certainly still in existence it has been going since 1667. However whether anyone would still have information on the people that were billeted there in the 1940's I rather doubt, those years were pretty traumatic to say the least and many teachers had gone off to fight, leaving a staff of somewhat older people.

    Nevertheless it is worth a try, I think I may send them an e-mail.

    Thank you for actually naming regiments as this could at least narrow the search, I am pretty certain they weren't airborn people, as why would they be landing on a beach.

    You may wonder why I am seeking the information and to be honest I might ask myself the same question. It is purely curiosity and the chances of my actually contacting anyone as a result of finding something out are minimal.

    However the Internet is a wonderful thing and there is always the chance that someone in the USA might be seeking exactly the same sort of information.

    Thanks once again for your help
     
  11. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Don't mean to quiz you on technicalities, but in trying to determine the identity of a unit 60 years later, technicalities may be all I have to go on. Very few survivors left. Since the school still exists, that means the records still exist. If there is one great obsession among educational institutions, it is that of keeping voluminous records (and threatening the students with entries upon them if they even slightly deviate from regulations). There may even be official correspondence between the school's administration and the military unit. The 116th Infantry still exists, as does the 29th Infantry Division, which is a US National Guard unit based in several East Coast states. Most of their wartime records are in the US National Archives and in the US Army Historical Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Joe Balkoski's superb book, "Beyond the Beachhead," is a history of the division through Normandy, and will offer information on its deployment in Britain. The 29th was in the UK from 1942 until D-Day, one of the reasons it was assigned to Omaha. Another good source will be the 29th Division's reunion groups, which I believe have a web page. The division's feat on Omaha made it legendary. It's a matter of sifting through movement, deployment, and billeting orders, which takes time and energy. I hope that helps.
     
  12. GRW

    GRW Pillboxologist

    Jackie,
    If you're able to, go to the National Archives in London and have a look at the official series "weekly/monthly return on the strength of the British Army". As this suggests, every British Army unit down to platoon (and sometimes section strength) world wide is listed at location.
    You mentioned a Light AA Battery-if you go to the Defence of Britain Project database, this lists all the surviving WW2 anti-invasion defences. It also sometimes gives details of units at a particular location too.
    As far as American units go, if they WERE American the only place I can think of for info is the NARA (national archives). Can't think of their website address though.
     
  13. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Originally posted by Jackienock@Nov 16 2004, 02:38 PM
    Thank goodness, some sensible information at last.
    [post=29494]Quoted post[/post]

    There is no need to be rude to contributors who are only trying to help you. No-one is expecting you to remember everything, which is why you are posting here in the first place.
     
  14. jewman

    jewman Junior Member

    I was once agian displeased that canada was not mentioned in the battle of britian :angry:. Canada tends to be forgotten alot in this web site and i would like to make it clear that the Americans did not win the war. The Americans came in late in the war in Africa after the british and the germans had been battleing it out.
    Again with d-day the americans only accounted for 40% of the forces that landed on june 6th. The American style come over and clean them up even though i believe the allies would have won without Americans help.

    Long time member:
    Jewman :)
     
  15. Jackienock

    Jackienock Junior Member

    Sorry Folks if you thought I was being rude.

    I was just feeling that I was being told off for giving information that might be suspect, quite innocently, honestly.

    I know now that your comments about bren gun carriers were perfectly valid and that they were in fact used by others than the Americans. (I've read it up myself since)

    As I said, at sixty years ago, memories can get dimmed and there were lots of other troops around at the time.

    I have since written to my old school and have been advised that my query has been passed on to someone who may have the information. So far I have not had a reply.

    Thank you all for your help and apologies if I sounded ungrateful.
     
  16. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by jewman@Nov 21 2004, 11:06 PM
    I was once agian displeased that canada was not mentioned in the battle of britian :angry:. Canada tends to be forgotten alot in this web site and i would like to make it clear that the Americans did not win the war. The Americans came in late in the war in Africa after the british and the germans had been battleing it out.
    Again with d-day the americans only accounted for 40% of the forces that landed on june 6th. The American style come over and clean them up even though i believe the allies would have won without Americans help.

    Long time member:
    Jewman :)
    [post=29600]Quoted post[/post]

    I don't think anyone is knocking or ignoring the Canadians, but the topic is about a group of US troops.

    It is a fact though that the US presence in Britain by 1944 was many times greater than the number of Canadians and the Americans made a much more lasting impression here.

    By 1944, the USA was the dominant partner in the western alliance and no, D-day and NW Europe could not have been done without them.
     
  17. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Jackienock@Nov 22 2004, 03:09 AM
    Sorry Folks if you thought I was being rude.



    Thank you all for your help and apologies if I sounded ungrateful.
    [post=29608]Quoted post[/post]
    You did sound ungrateful, and I am grateful for that apology.
     
  18. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by jewman@Nov 21 2004, 07:06 PM
    I was once agian displeased that canada was not mentioned in the battle of britian :angry:. Canada tends to be forgotten alot in this web site and i would like to make it clear that the Americans did not win the war. The Americans came in late in the war in Africa after the british and the germans had been battleing it out.
    Again with d-day the americans only accounted for 40% of the forces that landed on june 6th. The American style come over and clean them up even though i believe the allies would have won without Americans help.

    Long time member:
    Jewman :)
    [post=29600]Quoted post[/post]
    My advice to you is that rather than complain about the lack of material about Canada in World War II on this website, you simply research it, write it, and post it. You will also find a great many links on the web you can refer to and mention here. "Maple Leaf Up," dedicated to the 1st Canadian Army's role in Europe, comes to mind right away. I cannot remember its address. Light a candle.
     
  19. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

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