Anyone got any infomation regarding sorties, pilots, squadrons, casualties etc from either Luftwaffe or RAF units. I have some info but I'm sure there will be far more out there than what I already have. The info I'm looking for is specifically related to what the Germans called 'The Great London Raid' and British circles were calling 'Tip and Run' attacks. The attack involved FW 190's and ME 109's from JG 26 attacking targets in Deptford, Greenwich and Catford in South London. The most notable being Sandhurst School in Catford. There was also a diversionary attack on Maidstone, Kent and I have next to no information on this too. Also can anyone confirm if the details in the film below are correct regarding the pilots and Squadron mentioned? Sandhurst School Bombing and RAF Pilot Interview <-----This video is worth a watch if you've never seen it. The Policeman briefly seen in the clip at the begining with his sleeves rolled up is Police Sergeant Greenstreet. Shortly after filming stopped he found his dead son Norman aged 8 in the debris. Cheers for any help. Andy
I've now found 3 of the 7 aircraft shot down: 6/JG26 Messerschmitt Bf109G-4 (16102). Shot down by fire from Typhoons of No.609 Squadron. Crashed into the sea 10 miles east of Dover. Uffz. H Budde baled out and taken prisoner, suffering from exposure. Aircraft Brown 7+ sank in SEA. 6/JG26 Messerschmitt Bf109G-4 (16113). Shot down by fire from Typhoons of No.609 Squadron. Crashed into the sea 3 miles east of Ramsgate. Uffz H. Marquardt baled out and taken prisoner. Aircraft Brown 12+ sank in sea. 10/JG26 Focke-Wulf FW190A-4 (2409). Shot down by AA fire and crash landed at Capel, Surrey 12.45pm. Lt H. Hoch taken prisoner. Aircraft Black 2+ destroyed by pilot. Does anyone have any details on the other 4 German aircraft lost? Any RAF losses? Anyone know what Battery the AA unit was in Surrey that shot down the 190? In the video clip it suggests 611 Sqn shot down some aircraft? Anyone know what happened to the German pilots? Anyone know who the RAF pilots were and what happened to them? Basically I'm looking for as much detail as possible. Cheers Andy
RAF Fighter Command losses 20 January 1943. No.85 Squadron. Mosquito II 'D' F/O. E A. Mould + P/O. W. Fisher + Interception patrol off Bradwell Bay, evening. crashed into the sea near Blackwater Estuary. No.91 Squadron. Spitfire Vb BL333. P/O. B. Fey. Safe. Patrol off Ramsgate late am. Shot down by Fw190 of JG26; baled out and rescued. No.157 Squadron. Mosquito II DD777. P/O. K W. Paul RAAF + P/O. C O F. Cronin + Interception Patrol off Clacton. Crashed into the sea during the pursuit of enemy aircraft. No.332 Squadron. Spitfire IX BS252. Lt. P G. Mollestad + Patrol am. Engaged by Fw190s.
Cheers Peter, Am I right in thinking that those Mosquito's vectored to the German aircraft after returning from a sortie on a Gestapo Headquaters or is there another connection between them and the Gestapo HQ? Any connections with 611 Squadron in the video or has the chap got it wrong? Regards Andy
The attack on Gestapo Headquarters (Brussels) on 20 January 1943 was a solo attack made by Jean de Sely Longchamps in a Typhoon of No.609 Squadron.
Any connections with 611 Squadron in the video or has the chap got it wrong? Regards Andy No.611 Squadron made two claims on that day..... S/L. H T. Armstrong claimed two Bf109F's destroyed one mile south of Pevensey Bay at around 1315 hrs.
Andy I've found this piece in 'RAF Fighter Command' by Norman Franks, there's not much detail but it adds to the story, as far as I can tell the two Biggin Hill Sqn's would have been 611 and 340 (Free French) both flying the Spitfire IX. A similar attack on Bromley on 20 January 1943 also caught the Command's fighters on the wrong foot, although Spitfires were again to get in amongst the raiders. Some 20 FW190s came inland, skirting the base at Biggin Hill, much to the indignation of the pilots and especially the station commander, Group Captain Sailor Malan. Lunch was being served when the alarm was sounded with a call for a Scramble! 'Of all the bloody nerve,' was Malan's own comment when he saw for himself enemy fighters flying low past the northern boundary of the airfield. The 190s overshot Biggin to drop their bombs on nearby Bromley. One bomb hit a school, killing 45 children and four teachers. The 190s flew over Croydon, then south towards Beachy Head, the Biggin Spitfires heading them off; in the chase they shot down six, but again the damage had been done. Fortunately, the Luftwaffe only occasionally made these sneak attacks, but used on a larger scale could have caused havoc with the defences. By this time, of course, Fighter Command had a new C-in-C. Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory was given command in November 1942. He had finally dragged himself to the pinnacle he had desired for so long. There's mention of another incident the same day at Lewes here. Regards, Nick
Andy I have found the following I hope it's of use to you. He shot down three school raid planes Flying Officer John Robert Baldwin, fighter pilot from Baedeker-blitzed Bath, who shot down three of the 14 planes the Germans lost on the day they bombed the Lewisham S.E. school last month, has won the D.F.C. With a companion he intercepted eight Me 109s on their way towards London and attacked three which were flying apart from the others Daily Express. 15th February 1943 The above is from this web page- Valentines Day 1943 - which is also a transcription of the 609 Sqn ORB for 20th January 1943. You'll find a biography for F/O J R Baldwin here London Gazette DFC Citation Flying Officer John Robert BALDWIN (122337), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, No. 609 Squadron. This officer has participated in numerous sorties, invariably displaying great courage and operational efficiency. This was amply demonstrated during a sortie one day in January, 1943, when he attacked a formation of three enemy aircraft. In his first attack, Flying Officer Baldwin shot down the leading aircraft of the hostile formation. Following this success he destroyed. another of the formation before his own aircraft was hit in one of the wings. When the third enemy fighter attempted to attack from the rear. Flying Officer Baldwin out manoeuvred the attacker and shot it down. On another occasion, during a sortie over Belgium, he damaged four locomotives. Regards, Nick
Andy I checked the initial notes I took on my Dad's unit and at the beginning of January 1943, 336 Battery (my Dad's battery) went to Rye, 337 Battery to Hythe and 338 Battery to Folkestone. Would you believe it, but they recorded their first kills as an LAA Regiment during that month and they were FW190's. In February they went to Clacton for shooting practice. A coincidence maybe, but I will need to see the relevent pages regarding the dates. Rob
Ha ! That would be brill Rob if your old man's unit shot one down seeing as your family is from Catford ! Almost seems right that it should be that way.
Andy Have you seen this? http://www.bromleytimes.co.uk/content/bromley/times/newnews/story.aspx?brand=BMLYTOnline&category=news&tBrand=bmlytonline&tCategory=znews&itemid=WeED17%20Jun%202009%2015%3A49%3A15%3A217 Nick
Cheers Nick, Rob (Ramacal) told me the other week. I emailed them and have had no reply from them. Shame especially if Rob's Dad shot one down I don't know who's doing the research but the article in the paper is not that accurate. Cheers Andy
An article from a few weeks ago. Catford school WW2 massacre: 70th anniversary marked of deadly daytime raid (From News Shopper)
Is this old thread still open ? I am researching the events of 20th January 1943 and the appalling loss of life at Sandhurst Road School, Catford, The Sandhurst Road School was an ‘imposing’ looking three storey building, on Minard Road in Catford, South East London. Soon after midday, a German Focke Wulf fighter-bomber dropped a 1,100lb bomb, killing 38 children and six teachers and injuring another 60 people. Many children were buried for hours under the rubble and were taken to hospital with life-changing injuries, and some were transferred to East Grinstead Hospital where they were tended by Archibald McIndoe and his team, carrying out pioneering work with plastic surgery to badly burned and scarred faces. Why did Captain Schumann intentionally ‘target’ the school ? Was the Luftwaffe intelligence flawed ? Did the Luftwaffe believe that some London schools, evacuated by the Ministry of War, were now being used for military purposes ?
Mark this is an assumed tip and run raid low level and fast It would have just been a big target and bombed I would not read to much into it apart from it being a terrible tragedy Why Heinz Schumann chose to drop his one and only 500kg bomb on the school will never be known — his own report from the raid simply noted that he targeted a large building and a block of flats. The raid on the 20th January 1943 was part of the German Terrorangriff, to spread terror amongst the civilian population, and although it aimed to take out industrial facilities, it was as much a propaganda weapon. Reports at the time, and later eye-witness interviews however say that the plane flew low over the site, low enough for the schoolchildren to see the pilot — and by inference, for the pilot to have clearly seen that this large tall building was not a factory. It was also said that the pilot had ignored other more obvious targets such as a gas works and railways. Why Heinz Schumann chose to drop his one and only 500kg bomb on the school will never be known — his own report from the raid simply noted that he targeted a large building and a block of flats. 75th anniversary of the Catford school bomb The Bombing of Sandhurst Road School
My Nan was one of the eye witnesses to this. She told my Mum she clearly saw the pilots face, he was that low, before the bomb was dropped. As you say, this doesn't mean he had any knowledge of his target. He was flying an aircraft low level over enemy territory, so his mind must have been racing.
For anyone interested, there's a 2003 RAF Historical Society paper by Sqdn Ldr Chris Goss discussing the tip-and-run raids of 1942-3 here. It seems likely that Luftwaffe pilots engaged on these low-level raids targeted large buildings and easily-recognisable infrastructure like railways, gasworks, etc.; personally, I don't know if they'd have had much time at those speeds and altitudes to accurately differentiate schools and the like. I certainly don't doubt civilian casualties were part of the overall plan, though: widespread strafing the streets by some of the attacking FW190s was reported in the Brighton tip-and-run raid of 25 May 1943, for example.
Although there is nothing specifically mentioning the attack on the school, this raid report from 26th AA Brigade diary is almost certainly referring to the same incident. It is interesting that the times of the daylight raid on the 20th have been added by hand into the summary pages.
