AIF at villers-bretonneaux - advice please

Hello,

Some research advice please, would they have had gas masks on? I've read that there was a great deal of gas casualties and wondered whether I should depict them wearing masks in the advance.

My thoughts are that a night attack would be difficult enough, so perhaps they were not worn.

Also could the church/village be seen from the wood as they attacked the wood?

many thanks

 

Hi,

I am not sure if you are aware the First World War diaries of the AIF are available online at Australian War Memorial - First World War Diaries - AWM4, Class 23, as is the collection of Charles Bean, Australian War Memorial - Records of C.E.W. Bean.

To quote from Les Carlyon's The Great War p. 603
On April 16 and 17 the Germans had sent over tns of thousands of gas shells on the Villers-Bretonneux front: mustard, 'sneezing gas' and phosgene. The Australians had pulled on their masks but the gas stil got to them. Thin skin areas, under the arms and around the crotch, became inflamed and the men's eyes began to stream. The casualties ran to about 650. The shelling was obviously a prelude to an infantry attack. German guns were registering on the roads around Villers-Bretonneux. And the men on the ground kept seeing the red planes of Richtofen's circus.

Not sure if any of that helps. Was there a specific attack/situation you were referring to?

 

Hello,

many thanks for this, it is of great use, generally the 13th's attack on the 25th

 

I have found a modern day image taken from the grounds of the Australian National War Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux, Australian National Memorial#. This memorial is sited on what was Hill 104. Unfortunately, I now read in Carlyon that the German's held it. Be back soon with something else.

 

OK, I have now sorted myself out. =]

Here is a map of the area for the 24/26 April. Australian War Memorial - 1918 - Dernancourt and Villers-Bretonneux: Halting the Germans.
I have just looked at a street view on google maps from the Cachy area, where the 13th Brigade were, towards Villers-Bretonneux, and one is able to see the church spire.

Mark

 

Cheers Mark,

This is where I am at the moment

 

Hi Soren
Not just the Aussies. For example, the battalion that I am researching (6th London Regiment) was also at VB and suffered 300 gas casualties on the dates quoted above.
Jim

 

Hello Jim,

This is specifically for an Australian audiance, I do understand that we all fought together, places like Polygon Wood for example, if you visit it now you'd have thought it was an entirely Aussie affair however countless regiments and indeed countries had been through there at different times

 

That looks great. Quite evocative.

 

So what is the general opinion gas masks?

 

if there was gas about, then, yes, of course they'd have been masked-up.

Was it German defensive gas? If so, then the number of gas casualties could have been caused by them being slow to get masked (ie. they were taken by surprise). Alternatively, if it was a high gas concentration, then the filters would quickly have become saturated (anywhere between 10 to 30 minutes in high concentrations) rendering the masks useless and in need of a filter change (the PH helmet as back-up had been dropped by this point of the war... though many US troops had a French M2 as back-up to their CEM rezzies).

The German use of (to use the German simplified terms...there was over 20 different combinations) Blue Cross (a powder form 'solid' gas - a sensory irritant that was designed to clog and penetrate filters) mixed with Green Cross (lung irritants such as phosgene) was fairly effective (though not as much so as the Germans hoped)... the Blue Cross forcing the removal of respirators so that the victim breathed in the Green cross. Though not persistant (therefore , in all reality ,an 'offensive' gas mix), use of this, along with a 'defensive' gas such as the ground-denying Yellow Cross (such as 'mustard') which would effect exposed bits (especially sweaty bits!) - whether masked or not - could make being on the recieving end very unpleasant!

in other words, the high number of casualties would have been caused by soldiers suffocating in their masks and ripping them off, filters becoming useless, mustard burns (and also - an occurance in practically all gas attacks - (a smaller number of) damage to masks and hesitant gas-drills).

dave

 

So what is the general opinion gas masks?

If we are talking about the 25th, the last reference I could find within Carlyon's The Great War is to a gas attack at 0445 on 24th April, which doesn't mean there wasn't on 25th. (Gotta cover myself )

Personally I would go without gas masks in your artwork.

 

From what I can recall from 6th London Diary, not to hand at the momen, on 17th April there were two sustained periods of shelling with gas. The Battalion had just come back from the trenches around dawn and were caught asleep and then again a few hours later. From what I could tell the effects were enough to hospitalise but most returned to duty after a short while.

 

Thanks for the feedback, gas masks orf then.......

 

I'd lose the helmet cam on the dead German too, Soren.

Though hand- painted helmets did (unofficially) exist before then (mainly in a 'smudge' pattern), the style you depict wasn't really seen prior to July 1918 when it was officially sanctioned in KM orders.

Dave

 

Cheers Dave,

I always appreciate advice..... duly noted