Randy - Excellent summation although Drew feels he must disagree - as always - nevertheless the others will join me in recognising that it is not often that we have the originator of a thread return with a summation - so thank you for that. OWEN - I am pleased that your scholarship allows you to quote Hesiod of the c 700BC period - through to Peter the Hermit c 13th AD - and that they - and many other very well educated men agree with me that "youth is wasted on the young". My own preference is for the works of Aristotle - Augustine - Bellermine - Bonaventure through to Acquinas before the 12th Century - the loss of such teaching was in the "age of Aquarius in the Wild 60's" of the last century to be replaced with the works of the German Modern Philosophy of Kant - Hegel - Husserl and Heidigger and the French trio of Rousseau - DesCartes and Teilhard de Chardin - which - in my view is the root cause of the present turmoil western civilisation is going through at this time Cheers
Hi Tom, What have I said wrong now? I notice you have chosen to ignore the part about the Royal Marine being killed by the Taliban that I posted. Regards Andy
Randy with respect you may wish to look at who was killing who in Bosnia and what they were wearing. In the most part apart from the Serbian Army many were civilians-after all it was more a civil war than a convential one and before Afghanistan many Muslim civilians fought in Bosnia and assuming they are still alive moved to Iraq and Afghanistan years ago. Should we talk here about the war in Bosnia too?
To QUOTE, TOM. "Wtid/ Britman - so your newpapers Tv reports etc are all full of lies and there are no people at all in the Uk taking advantage of the many benefits available whether earned or not - now that just shows that one should not take all these account as being truthful and the only people taking advantage are those who sit in Parliament and fudge their expenses - there's a wonderful example ! and for those who haven't worked for a while owing to some difficulty or other - you have my sympathy but the fact that you suffer abuse from an even younger generation surely proves my point..." TOM,I never said there are no people working the system, I objected to your lumping everyone on benifits into one group and that young people are all the same define young as for the lovely little boys aged 11-16 who think they can call me names(they would shock a drill Sergeant with some odf their language) I would never of dreamt of directing such words at my elders at the same age, there issues are due to my dogs running on the Bmx track which is not fenced in and appeared well after I had been walking my dogs on that route although when challenged to stay and chat with me they disapered some weeks ago and have not been seen since.To go back on thread I think my link on Capt Semrau's time in the Parachute Regiment more than shows the sort of officer he was and while I can see Drews point ref the Royal Marine situation it comes down to bad judgement but in no way disgraceful.
The verdict is now in. Canadian soldier who shot unarmed Taliban avoids jail term - The Globe and Mail A shame that we are about to lose a good officer. Capt. Semrau also served in the British Army. From across the pond...and no cheers today Getting back to the point!! I dont see what else the tribunal could have done. The matter SHOULD have stayed on the battlefield,but someone must of "bubbled" him. If they had done nothing it would have been the green light for all the "John Wayne Knobs" and chaos would have followed,also the Taleban would have made much of it. I really hope that if the tribunal WERE serving soldiers that they were gutted. C'EST LA GUERRE
Drew - I didn't ignore your tale of the marine - it happens all the time in war- as you are perhaps aware from your experience in Bosnia..... WtId it would appear that not only do I denigrate the young but according to Owen who came up with quotations from Hesiod in 700Bc - Plato - Socrates - all the way to Peter the Hermit in the 13th century AD - they all seem to agree with me about the youth - being as I said - wasted on the young. Regarding the benefts people being lumped to-gether sorry about that but I did make the exception for the disabled - and I am sure that there can be other categories of which I am not aware - but I am convinced that someone will let me know of them ! Cheers
It's interesting that as he was not dishonourably discharged, Semrau could in theory apply to reenter the CF as a 2Lt. While that seems far-fetched, I wonder if he might look to continue his military career in the UK. Very long but interesting thread here: Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan An open forum, but lots of discussion by serving and retired CF members.
Drew - I didn't ignore your tale of the marine - it happens all the time in war- It doesn't make it right though does it? I can't ever recall anyone defending a German on here who did it to wounded Allied troops or Jews in Europe during WW2. But somefolk seem to think its ok for a Canadian to do it today- I guess its ok for someone to shoot a wounded, unarmed combatant when they are the enemy but not when it's one of their own ? as you are perhaps aware from your experience in Bosnia..... Nope, I was peace keeping in Bosnia. Cheers Andy
OWEN - I am pleased that your scholarship allows you to quote Hesiod of the c 700BC period Never heard of him Tom, as I say Adam had posted it all somewhere else so I just thought I'd copy & paste it.
It's interesting that as he was not dishonourably discharged, Semrau could in theory apply to reenter the CF as a 2Lt. While that seems far-fetched, I wonder if he might look to continue his military career in the UK. Very long but interesting thread here: Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan An open forum, but lots of discussion by serving and retired CF members. Many Many thanks for that link. The thread was a bit long for me to read all of it but I started reading from pages 40 and found the majority of posts interesting and in some cases quite informative. It seems the Canadian Forces us the same/similiar LOAC as the British Forces. Taken from the thread Klambie posted the link to: 435. WOUNDED, SICK AND SHIPWRECKED 1. All the wounded, sick and shipwrecked, to whichever party they belong, shall be respected and protected and shall not be attacked. G l Art 12 (1); Gll Art 12 (1); AP l Arts 10 (1) & 41 (1) & (2) (c); AP ll Art 7 (1) 2. The “wounded” and “sick” mean persons, whether military or civilian who, because of trauma, disease or other physical or mental disorder or disability, are in need of medical assistance or care. The wounded and sick are protected so long as they refrain from any act of hostility. http://www.cfd-cdf.forces.gc.ca/websites/Resources/dgfda/Pubs/CF%20Joint%20Doctrine%20Publications/CF%20Joint%20Doctrine%20-%20B-GJ-005-104%20FP-021%20-%20LOAC%20-%20EN%20(13%20Aug%2001).pdf Pretty much black and white for me. Cheers Andy
Owen- Pity you don't know Hesiod as Aristotle had a great deal to say about him being one of the first poets to recognise the value of working for a living and progressing under one's own steam - wouldn't be too popular though with a certain section of the Britisih public to-day though as they would claim that "work" is a four letter word.... Drew - you can quote verse and chapter of the rules of engagment all day long - but you really must read the true situation which Capt. Semrau found himself to cause him the end that man's problem - until then you are just tilting windmills - he wasn't just peacekeeping ! Cheers
It's interesting that as he was not dishonourably discharged, Semrau could in theory apply to reenter the CF as a 2Lt. While that seems far-fetched, I wonder if he might look to continue his military career in the UK. Very long but interesting thread here: Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan An open forum, but lots of discussion by serving and retired CF members. Kevin Welcome to the forum. Good to see another Canadian signed on. Randy
Drew - you can quote verse and chapter of the rules of engagment all day long - but you really must read the true situation which Capt. Semrau found himself to cause him the end that man's problem - until then you are just tilting windmills - he wasn't just peacekeeping ! Cheers I know he wasn't peacekeeping. I'm quite familiar with the current situation in Afghanistan. Regardless of the true circumstances of the incident which only those on the ground will know for sure as they were there, what he did was wrong and I suspect you are tilting windmills too (what ever that means) in your defence of him as you seem to agree it was ok for him to shoot and kill an unarmed, wounded combatant. I know in todays British military rules and regs that what he done, regardless of the reason, it was wrong and I assume with slight differences at best the Canadian Forces following the same principles. I suspect very much if the tables were turned and it was a ISAF soldier that was shot and killed my a Taliban gunmen many would be calling for his testicles in a sling. I would suggest you read the posts/comments in the excellent link that was provided by klambie - You never know you might find it rather informative, rather than relying purely on some poor media reporting. Cheers Andy
Drew - I'll give you 100% for persistence - I do defend Capt. Semrau as this case should never have come off the battlefield - now I suggested to you before that this was not an uncommon ocurrence on a battlefield and knowing that you have been on one in your peacekeeping role in Bosnia - I now have grave suspicions that you have never seen a badly shot up body with little hope of treatment let alone recovery - as this is the situation that Capt Semrau had to deal with and he in fact chose to end the man's suffering - strictly against all the rules of engagement - the Geneva convention which the Taliban have never signed - nor the infamous elf & safety of the British - now I would ask you once more - have you ever seen a badly shot up man who might be thankful that someone ends their suffering ...? And if so what would you do in a similar case to Capt. Semrau - as many of the WW2 veterans on this forum have seen these things happen - and don't cry about it as it was just a part of warfare in the same way as we sometime pulled our best friends charred beyond all recognition from their knocked out and burned Tanks.
Hi Tom, It sounds like you haven't paid much notice to my posts in the past-I have seen enough 'badly shot-up', knife wound and bludgeoned dead bodies and live ones in military life and civilian life to last me a life time thanks-I suspect I'll see quite a few more too between now and retiring from the current firm I work for. Just because the Taliban don't respect the rules of war it doesn't mean we have to lower ourselves to their standards. If I was in the same situation I wouldn't shoot a dying wounded, unarmed man - I'm sure there were numerous other options available to him on the battlefield, one that immediately springs to mind that I had already mentioned (Again I suspect you are not ready my previous posts) was to fill him with Morphine. The fact that he let ANA beat and spit on the wounded man prior to shooting him according to the media suggests to me it wasn't a 'Mercy killing'. as many of the WW2 veterans on this forum have seen these things happen Quite the contrary, No WW2 vet on here has admitted to seeing or doing anything like the above and in some cases has said that the British Army in WW2 never did such things-But thats another story so no need to go down that avenue on this thread. Cheers Andy
If I was in the same situation I wouldn't shoot a dying wounded, unarmed man - I'm sure there were numerous other options available to him on the battlefield, one that immediately springs to mind that I had already mentioned (Again I suspect you are not ready my previous posts) was to fill him with Morphine. The fact that he let ANA beat and spit on the wounded man prior to shooting him according to the media suggests to me it wasn't a 'Mercy killing'. What was the old saying, one syrete for pain, the second for heaven. But then what's the difference between a bullet and an overdose ? I wish only the best for the Captain, maybe the US will recognize his skills. We have lost a good officer.
Klambie, I can't wait for it to hit the bookshelves. We will now get a chance to hear from Capt. Semrau. I noted the forward written by General McKenzie. I know a retired Canadian Maj General ( who served in Afghanistan ) who has not much good to say about the General or Semrau. This should be very interesting. Thanks for the post.
Klambie, I can't wait for it to hit the bookshelves. We will now get a chance to hear from Capt. Semrau. I noted the forward written by General McKenzie. I know a retired Canadian Maj General ( who served in Afghanistan ) who has not much good to say about the General or Semrau. This should be very interesting. Thanks for the post. Randy, I for one would be intrested in your views on the book be sure to give us a review please mate.
