Accidental death 10th April 1945

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by Mavis Williams, May 18, 2018.

  1. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Hi Everyone,
    I am trying to find out how this soldier died accidentally. Is there anywhere I can find this out please:-

    Commonwealth War Graves Commission
    Driver
    LLOYD, FRANCIS
    Service Number 2336691
    Died 10/04/1945
    Aged 27
    Royal Corps of Signals

    Son of George and Ann Lloyd, of Shotton, Flintshire.

    Buried at CLICHY NORTHERN CEMETERY


    On the transcribed British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945
    First name(s) F
    Last name Lloyd
    Year 1945
    DEATH - Accidentally Killed 10th April 1945
    Capture year 1945
    Service number 2336691
    Rank Driver
    Rank as transcribed Dvr i/c
    Regiment Royal Corps of Signals
    Regiment as transcribed Royal Corps of Signals (8 Spec. Command Unit)
    Theatre of war Western Europe
    Archive reference WO 417/91
    I am trying to tell his story, Many thanks in advance, Regards, Mavis Williams
     
  2. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Not much help but I have some general shots of the cemetery that I took a couple of years back. Unfortunately I was looking for graves of airmen and I didn't photograph any soldier's graves
     
  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You may find some mention of the incident in his unit War Diary.

    Steve
     
  4. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Find my past has him as born 1917. 1939 register has him living at 77 Alexandra Street, Hawarden, Flintshire. Occupation listed as Tobacconist salesman van. Not sure if this helps in finding out how he died. Unless there was some form of inquest I doubt there is a death certificate.
     
  5. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Clichy was used postwar to accept Royal Air Force remains brought in from other burial sites........ some well remote from Clichy One feature of this was that many RAF aircrews in death were split from other crew members especially when remains were found much later than the date of death.

    It's possible that army remains were similarly transferred and Francis Lloyd met his accidental death remote from the area and was reburied at Clichy.
     
  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    I am intrigued to know what this statement means/why is it written like that ??

    TD
     
  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    we can read it both ways

    year data was captured for the document

    or was the casualty a POW
     
  8. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
    Grave concentration report from CWGC. An expert will have to interpret where the original grave was.

    Tim
     
    CL1 likes this.
  9. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Not listed on Find my past as POW.
     
  10. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    He was serving with 8 Spec. command unit.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    It appears that they were all brought from the American Cemetery at Champigneul-Champagne. He is listed as SHAEF - Supreme Headquarters Allied Forces Europe so was probably alongside US staff.
     
  12. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Sorry to be pedantic but I thought SHAEF stood for Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force.
    Tim
     
  13. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    You're quite right of course. In my defence, I was being nagged to come to the table !
     
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  14. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thank you all so much for your replies and suggestions, what fascinated me besides that his death was accidental, was the mention of him serving
    with 8 Spec. command unit. I immediately thought that he had gone in behind enemy lines or something, or am I just exaggerating, as I know lots of men and women did, bless them, they were so brave. Thanks so much again, Kind regards, Mavis

    Attached Files:
     
  15. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    I am happy to be corrected on this as it is really outside my sphere of knowledge. I see what it says in the attachment to Post 10 but I think SCU stands for Special Communications Unit, which would have been responsible for Ultra messages etc.

    2. Necessity for separate SLU/SCU detachment at each command:

    Early efforts to have air and ground HQs at the army-TAC level serviced by the same SLU/SCU detachment presented serious difficulties in a fast moving situation in the field, where the two HQs were often many miles apart. Some representative lost much time in daily trips to the detachment in order to pick up and return the material, and of necessity deliveries were limited to one per day. These delays lessened the value of Ultra information and, in some cases, may have prevented its being put into operational use. The presence of a separate SLU/SCU detachment at each command which has a representative is highly desirable. Even in cases where commands are certain to remain physically adjacent to each other, separate detachments may simplify routing problems and avoid jurisdictional difficulties.(Extracted from http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/ultra/army-1.html).

    Tim
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    All the above would tend to tie him in with being a Driver and associated with The Royal Corps of Signals. Is it therefore likely that he was involved in a 'motoring type' accident [car/lorry/motorbike] perhaps taken to a hospital or at least the nearest CCS then presumably died, some time after the actual accident. Buried at the nearest American cemetery as he may have been treated at an American medical facility and then moved by CWGC in June 1945 to his final resting place

    TD
     
  17. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    Thanks Tim and TD, would I be stretching the Forum's generosity by asking where the nearest CCS or American Medical Facility would have been in the Clichy area in 1942? Perhaps it was a Motor accident on his way to or from the SCU. Thank you both for going the extra mile. Regards, Mavis
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    From the Graves concentration report he was first buried at Champigneul-Champagne, from a web site

    Galloway, Maryville R. | East Tennessee Veterans Memorial Association
    Champigneul was a temporary U.S. Military Cemetery, located near Champigneul-Champagne, about 15 km west of Chalons-sur-Marne in Northern France

    From this site - Chick Havey in the Map Room at SHAEF HQ in Reims, France - ww2etotours.com - it seems there was a SHAEF HQ based at Reims, and Champigneul-Champagne is a relatively short distance South of Reims - https://www.google.fr/maps/place/51...:0x40a5fb99a3b5960!8m2!3d48.971066!4d4.167712

    Where the medical facility would be is presently beyond the scope of my crystal ball as it is in need of an upgrade

    TD
     
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  19. Mavis Williams

    Mavis Williams Well-Known Member

    You are a gem TD! Another brick in the wall! Will pursue tomorrow. Kind regards, Mavis
     
  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    timuk likes this.

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