Abbreviation help

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Laird, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. Laird

    Laird Junior Member

    On my father's RN record,
    At the top it says - Port Division Devonport

    There is a rubber stamp put on the record at the time of his discharge in 1946,

    Released in Class A Date 19.3.46
    A. & S. Gr. No 32
    S. 161 R. HMS President III
    Q: What does this tell me?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    HMS President was a RNVR base ship (still moored on the Thames today) possibly his Reserve Holding Unit
     
  3. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    'HMS PRESIDENT III' was different to 'HMS PRESIDENT' if you follow.

    'HMS PRESIDENT III' was a shore base, an accounting base, which had its roots in the World War I DAMS [Defensively Armed Merchant Ships] organisation.

    In 1939, at the beginning of WWII, It was resurrected again at Bristol and in due course had offices at Windsor and London. It was responsible for drafting, paying and otherwise looking after men who served on DEMS - Defensively Equipped Merchant Ships.

    what does this tell me
    Not very much I am afraid. 'HMS PRESIDENT III' was his accountancy base. He was a DEMS gunner on MN ships. As his service record does not name these ships, the only way to find out which ships he did serve on would be to look at the crew agreements of those merchant ships. The catch is you do need to know the name of one of them preferably at the end of his service so you can back track through these agreements which usually will give the name of the previous ship.

    So you have a difficult task unless you can give us the name of a ship.

    Released in Class A Date 19.3.46


    Class A release meant that individuals were being released to Shore or from the Forces under the Plan for Re-allocation of Manpower in the period after the defeat of Germany and before the defeat of Japan. Individuals released under this order were still subject to recall to Naval Service in an emergency until the defeat of Japan. This would be shown on a form S. 1586 (A)

    S. 161 R. HMS President III


    Form S161 R was a release form sent to Naval Admin on demob to stop his RN Pay.

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  4. Laird

    Laird Junior Member

    Thanks Hugh.
    Every bit of information is useful.
     
  5. Belville

    Belville Senior Member

    Hugh,

    Does that mean that someone designated as 'HMS President III' was on one of these DEMS?

    I am researching:


    Name: STONEY, ROBERT VESEY
    Initials: R V
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Lieutenant (Sp)
    Regiment: Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve
    Unit Text: "H.M.S. President III"
    Date of death: 14/05/1944
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: 5.C.3
    Cemetery: FREETOWN (KING TOM) CEMETERY

    Is there anywhere I could find a list of ships operating from Freetown, if this is the only way of finding what he was doing there? Also, what does (Sp) mean? Presumably, special, but what does that mean, and why did he not have a number?

    Here he is, by the way.
    Belville
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Does that mean that someone designated as 'HMS President III' was on one of these DEMS?


    Not necessarily, it simply means that HMS PRESIDENT III was his accounting base. DEMS gunners were enlisted men not officers. However, he could have been a DEMS liaison officer based in Freetown. The DEMS organisation had bases all around the UK and other parts of the world. He died of illness in Sierra Leone.

    what does (Sp) mean?
    Normally written Sp Br, i think.
    Sp Br = Special Branch.

    Edit* - I note on this site he is mentioned as Sp Br - Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve (RNVR) Officers 1940-1945

    During the period 1939 to 1945 there was extensive recruitment of RNVR officers. Some with suitable academic or professional engineering qualifications joined as officers. Many more were selected from 'hostilities only' ratings having similar qualifications or experience in electrical engineering and promoted to commissioned rank in the RNVR and allocated to what was known as the "Special Branch" which did not require extensive seamanship training. After a short basic officer training course some served in sea appointments normally filled by Torpedo Officers [T] and others as Assistance Torpedo Officers in major warships. A considerable number were employed ashore in specialised work such as 'Mine Development and Disposal', 'Degaussing' and research work. Those RNVR officers who volunteered to remain in RN service and who were accepted for transfer, received permanent commissions as Lieutenant Commanders or Lieutenants [L] in the Electrical Branch on formation. Cross-training in W/T, Radar and Fire Control as well as in additional electrical subjects was needed to complete their technical knowledge. These officers formed a large proportion of the Electrical Branch 'middle ranks' until the late 1950's.

    HOW THE ELECTRICAL BRANCH WAS FORMED

    Regards
    Hugh
     
  7. JOHORRIDGE

    JOHORRIDGE Junior Member

    Hello

    Could anyone assist I am trying to suss out the abbreviations on my grandads Army Form B102 as per below:
    Nature of Engagement - AC
    Industry Group - DA
    Cause of becoming non-effective Class A Release Z(T) then a word beginning Red?????
    Number 15 - its just says S G 2
    Specialist Qualification 47 NS23
    Medical Category c - A1 F - 51 there are numerous references to 51 and or 51c (Age and service group) throughout - but he wasn't 51 yrs old
    Other initials I don't understand are the PA from REME/PA/IUL/IEME.
    Written right across the front of form B102 in big letters are also 1143 CMAO??

    Thanks in anticipation:confused:
     
  8. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    You will need to obtain a copy of his service file, however I have found this:

    President III, illness
    STONEY, Robert V, Lieutenant, RNVR, died



    The info comes from this site:
    Royal Navy casualties, killed and died, May 1944

    Regards

    Simon
     
  9. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    JOhorridge
    on joining the services - everyone was given an Age & Service number - your Grandads number was 51......as I suspect he was called up early in 1943 with a number of 144***** and released around June '47... my number was 50 - but I was only 22 at the time I was released from the Army...to Z(T) reserve which meant that I was liable for recall - which I was for the Korea thing - the PA after the REME/ might mean Paid Acting - whatever ....

    you might be better off starting your own thread with a scan of his service records- then we might all be able to assist
    Cheers
     
  10. Nostoneunturned

    Nostoneunturned New Member


    Belville,

    Am intrigued to know what else you found out about RVS; he’s my grandfather. May be able to help with photos of his grave in Freetown etc.

    JAVS
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Re member

    UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960
    Name: R. V. Stoney
    Event: Death
    Birth Date: abt 1904
    Death Date: 14 May 1944
    Death Age: 40
    Death Place: 51st General Hospital W.A.
    Ship: Eland
    44994_adm_104_116-0093.jpg

    Cause of death - Septicaemia (Septic toe)

    England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards, 1790-1976
    Name: Robert Vesey Stoney
    Spouse's Name: Theffania
    Death Date: 23 May 1944
    31031_A100170-00510.jpg

    There are several family trees on Ancestry for him

    Robert Vesey Stoney
    Birth: 24 Sep 1903 - Ireland
    Death: 14 May 1944
    Marriage: 4 Nov 1927 - London
    Spouse: Marian Catherine Theffania Nugent
    F: Robert Vesey Stoney
    M: Phoebe Editha Truell

    His father and his son are all called Robert Vesey Stoney

    TD
     
    timuk likes this.

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