A Tiger in Fontenay-le-Pesnel !

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Little Black Devil, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    Hello Gentlemen,

    My future book : Fontenay-Rauray - The Bear and Fox, Ready for the Fray will be eventually available in Spring 2020 at Editions Maranes. It will be published in French first then in English.

    Many new and unknown information have been included in it. Many people, veterans, families of veterans, British, Irish and French historians and searchers have been involved to deliver a massive and detailed work for the readers. It will be accurate as possible.

    Anyway, here is one of the scoop : a Tiger has been knocked out inside the town of Fontenay-le-Pesnel.
    We wanted to keep the information as a surprise to the readers for the release of the book but as some people already seen many pages of the first printed pages we decided to share it.

    Thanks to our friend Lee Archer from the very good publishing company PanzerWrecks, we have the proof than this Tiger of the s.SS. Panzer-Abteilung 101 was KO'd by Major John Semken - Commanding Officer of the 'A' Squadron - Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry !

    Here is the double page about the Tiger + the book cover.

    Best Regards

    Follow us on Facebook : THE BEAR AND FOX, READY FOR THE FRAY.
    on Instagram : polarbear1944.
     

    Attached Files:

    CL1, desertfox44, stolpi and 6 others like this.
  2. Korps Steiner

    Korps Steiner Senior Member

    Another exclusive as a result of excellent research , Looking forward to all the revelations Fred , they will make the book the most detailed and historically accurate piece of work ever done on the British and German operations in this area , it's been an honour to have had the chance to help with this project .
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  3. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The Tiger shows clear evidence that the internal demo charges were triggered and it is in a different location in the photo where the hits are arrowed than it is in the wide view. .





    Tiger Fontenay.jpg



    Screenshot_323R-vert.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    desertfox44, SDP and Tom OBrien like this.
  4. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    Actually it's clearly the same place in Fontenay-le-Pesnel. Look at the wall plus the Tiger looks exactly the same.
    Look at the arrows next to the impacts on the armour. It means the commission already came to study the Sherman 75mm shells on Tiger on Fontenay-Rauray area.
    I'll quote just one diary (756th Field Company RE - attached to the 147th Brigade) as this unit was in charge of this part of the town of Fontenay :
    "June 28th : Further clearance of routes fwd particularly in FONTENAY. Each Pl recovered quantities of enemy empt and timber. 1 enemy tiger tk destroyed in FONTENAY"

    Major Semken knocked out this Tiger in rue Massieu then the 756th Fd Coy RE towed it out from this narrow street to store it on the main road which was right next to the place where it was abandoned by the crew. Then the Engineers probably destroyed it from the inside with demo charges.
     
    Tom OBrien, Korps Steiner and Chris C like this.
  5. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hi,

    The pages from the book look great and it is great that you have identified the location of this photo.

    My only concern is that I'm not convinced that a Field Company RE had a vehicle which could "tow" a Tiger tank. Wouldn't it be more likely that they arranged for it to be moved by someone with a ARV or B/Down tractor?

    Regards

    Tom
     
  6. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The shell strike in the stone next to the Tiger shows that it is not the same place

    Tiger Fon,,-dvertsd.jpg

    Now it is possible another window is hidden (note that the arrowed window is not the same window in both pics) in the wide view but the strikes on the wall at the rear do not match.

    The bin flattened on the turret rear and the raised hull roof at right front on the Tiger makes it certain the internal demo charges have been used.
     
  7. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    I had already worked that out a while ago. . The wall is still there but has had lots of alterations with openings added and removed over the years. Note that this is not where it was knocked out if it was moving when it was hit. The tracks are gone and thus it has already been moved at least once. You can remove most of the tracks from a derelict tank but not the track under the road wheels. If that has gone then it is positive proof it has been moved.




    mjik.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  8. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    Here is the right connexion between the two photographs.

    Some shells were still falling on Fontenay in July when 59th Div replaced 49th Division and knowing the Tiger was moved by the Royal Engineers on June 28th 1944. walls could have received more impacts.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    There is no doubt it is the same Tiger. If it is claimed the shell damage was inflicted after the wide view then all that would mean means is frontal view was taken after the wide view . But still the background wall does not match in the two pics . There is the other view from Panzerwrecks

    Tiger Fmmmmm.jpg
     
  10. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    This shows the background well more clearly and it might be the same location.
    Tiger Fonltenay le.jpg
     
  11. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    Here we are though.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    You missed a better indication

    Tiger Fontenay le Marmion  copysde.jpg
     
  13. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    It is a puzzle why the towing cables are on the front. If it was facing north and in the narrow street the easiest way to move it would be to attach tow-lines to the rear and drag it out backwards. What is the evidence for it being the Rue Massieu?
     
  14. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    Yep and what is the point though?
    I was right, wasn't I ?
     
  15. Little Black Devil

    Little Black Devil Active Member

    The evidence is Render's account explaining Semken's action and the fact RE took the Tiger out of the street as it was too narrow to drive easily.
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList Patron

    It would have been tricky to tow into that corner - it must have been 'dozed' in there.
     
  17. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    If you look you can see the small build-up of earth beside the road wheels. It was pushed sideaways
     
  18. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    So if it was narrow why did they attach cables to the front and then do a U-turn in the road to remove it. A rear tow would have been the obvious way.
     
  19. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    I have been looking at these Tigers for over a decade. I was the one who went looking and rediscovered the IWM film of Christopherson on '114' and sent a copy to Stuart Hills for identifying the men. Using a lead from Wheels &Tracks Magazine I found the series of photos of Tiger 114 on the trailer in the REME museum and posted them on ML many years before Panzerwrecks published them. I have some expertise and my point is to positively identify all Tiger wrecks (all tank wrecks actually but let us stick to Tigers) in the EPSOM area. That is my point.


    This is not a competition to see who is right but a collaborative effort to establish the reality. I have been wrong many times and have no difficulty admitting this.
    The posts in this thread are real-time in that 'we' are working through possible scenarios and that is why I gave you a photo that shows what I said at the start appears to be wrong.
     
  20. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    That does not say where the Tiger was or that they moved it. Is there any other information?
     

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