9th Lancers in May and June 1940

Discussion in '1940' started by Ramiles, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  2. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Links

    Regimental museum: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/

    Some links (webpages and books) from Owen: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/876...tchinson-9-queens-royal-lancers-1940/?p=96751

    A route map for the movements of the 9th L during this period is shown here: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org...s/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37664

    Wiki (very little there about May/June 1940 for the 9th L at the mo.): 9th Queen's Royal Lancers - Wikipedia

    Edwin Ezra Parsons's memories of the 9th Lancers in France in 1940: BBC - WW2 People's War - France 1940

    Books:

    Regimental Histories: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories

    Threads:

    Fall Rot (Case Red)

    9th Queens Royal Lancers - Roll of Honour : http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57942-9th-queens-royal-lancers-roll-of-honour/

    Trooper Bartholomew Hutchinson: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/876...lomew-hutchinson-9-queens-royal-lancers-1940/

    9th Lancers and the Dunkirk medal: 9th Lancers and the Dunkirk medal and 1939-43 Star

    A 9th Lancer in Occupied Paris: A 9th Lancer in Occupied Paris

    9th Queens Lancers: 9th Queens Lancers

    Audio podcasts:

    World War Two Podcast (Ray Harris) - Episode 30 - End of Dunkirk : http://worldwariipodcast.net/2012/01/episode-30-the-end-of-dunkirk/

    World War Two Podcast (Ray Harris) - Episode 31 - Paris Falls: http://worldwariipodcast.net/2012/01/episode-31-paris-falls/
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Events

    Nb. A route map for the movements of the 9th L during this period is shown here: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37664

    May 1940

    Monday 20th May: (Nb. my Gd's 9th Lancer records say Embarked 20-5-40 , Disembarked France 21-5-40)

    Tuesday 21st May: Cherbourg: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37918

    Thursday 23rd May: Loss of Major A.F.Phillimore while away from the 9th L (ERE) - evacuating reserve tanks at Arras.
    Arrived at Blaru (small commune in Ile-de-France nr. Gisors) : http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37904
    During arrival at Gisors loss of Lieutenant Tew.

    Friday 24th May: very early morning left Gisors : http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37973
    Area of Amiens: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37947
    Loss of 2nd Lieutenant R.O.P. Steel

    Saturday 25th May: Lincheux and patrols to Ferriere : http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/38036

    Sunday 26th May: Ordered to attack the German held Abbeville Bridgehead (9th L in reserve) fails with heavy loss. Loss of Trooper Brown

    Monday 27th May: During morning 9th Lancers tasked with supporting General de Gaulle: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37839

    Tuesday 28th May: During the next two days the French troops led by de Gaulle succeed in capturing Bailluel and Limeux but unfortunately failed to reach the Somme. Meanwhile elsewhere: Surrender of the Belgium Army

    Wednesday 29th May: 9th L return to Ramburelle & Biencourt (Both nr. Gamaches south west of Abbeville)

    Thursday 30th May: From Chapter II: Battle and Evacuation: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37972

    Friday 31st May: A letter from the G.O.C. 1st Armoured Div. to all ranks: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37924

    June 1940

    Saturday 1st June: St.Leger-aux-Bois: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37972

    2-3rd June: Meanwhile elsewhere, Dunkirk reported evacuated.

    Monday 3rd June: Loss of Trooper Tron: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37972

    Wednesday 5th June: Renewed German offensive is only briefly held as Germany attacks the British positions on the Somme in force: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37669
    Loss of Corporal Parker. Meanwhile elsewhere - General Brooke ordered to France via Cherbourg to organise and command a new British Expeditionary Force (BEF).

    Thursday 6th June: Recrossing of the River Bresle (and back into Normandy): http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/38031
    Lieutenant-Colonel Peto wounded and subsequently evacuated.

    Friday 7th June: "B" Echelon bombed and Loss of Trooper Duxbury: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/38016

    Saturday 8th June: Route of 9th L regiment St.Aubin, St.Saens, Buchy to Les Hogues

    Sunday 9th June: Loss of Trooper Hutchinson

    Monday 10th June: Meanwhile elsewhere: During the evening Italy declares war against France and the UK to take effect at midnight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_France

    Thursday 13th June: Le Mans: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37804

    Friday 14th June: German troops enter Paris whilst at the same time elsewhere they break through the Maginot line.

    Saturday 15th June: Immediate evacuation to the UK is announced and the 9th L regiment's remaining tanks are loaded onto a train for Cherbourg: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37804
    It is later heard that this train fell into German hands.

    Sunday 16th June: 9th L regiment in Brest: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37850

    Monday 17th June: 9th L arrival at Plymouth: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37850
    Warminster: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37932

    Some other events thereafter:

    July 1940

    Tuesday 30th July: An accounting of 9th L tank strength at the end of July and the visit of the British King and Queen: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37833

    December 1940: A new regiment - 24th Lancers - is raised - with a selection of soldiers partly from the 9th Lancers and partly from the 17/21st Lancers: http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/archive/journals/regimental-histories/regimental-histories-1936-1945-bright/37665

    The 9th Queen’s Royal Lancers and the 17th/21st Lancers sent the following Officers to he 24th L:-

    9th Royal Lancers 7th/21st Lancers
    Major.M.H.Aird. (Lt.Col Commanding.) Major.D.M.Miller. (2 i/c)
    Major.E.R.Pettit. Captain.R.M.Fitzhugh.
    Captain.J.D.Gilroy. Captain.W.A.C.Anderson.
    Captain.D.S.Allhusen. Lieut.G.Morris.
    2/Lieut.A.C.L.Wills. (Adjutant) 2/Lieut.R.G.Bennett.
    2/Lieut.R.Arbuthnot. 2/Lieut.J Saggers.
    2/Lieut.H.O.D.Thwaites. 2/Lieut.A.B.Glover.
    2/Lieut.J.Phillimore.
    Lieut.S.Cottee. (Quartermaster)
     
  4. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    A letter from France on the 12th June 1940


    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:29460]


    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:29461]


    Possibly a bit hard to read so I have transcribed:


    7880500 Trooper B Symes
    R.H.Q. 9th Lancers
    B.E.F.
    June 12 (1940)
    Dearest Phyl,
    The letter you sent June 5 arrived today.
    This is the first chance I have had for a few days, so there will have been a small gap in the mail, but never let that worry you as there are plenty of reasons to cover this paper.
    We are O.K., and you must believe me my dear, I have had an occasional headache and sometimes a “tinned food – bully beef tummy” but that ain't so bad.
    Lots of things have happened and I have seen a whole lot of queer sights, they wouldn’t let me tell you here although what I know what would interest you has nothing to do with the military.
    I can guess you have been very ill, but I do believe you are getting better now.
    Not much good for me to worry as I had to leave you to take care of yourself and as I always told you my sweet it’s not a lot of use worrying if you can’t do anything to help.
    I hope to get some ink tomorrow to fill my pen and then I’ll write you a really good letter.
    I saw Buck* yesterday but he was kicking along so fast he didn’t hear me yell.
    One thing I think they will allow me to tell you, the 9th Lancers have done well.
    I have heard the news this evening on the radio, I don’t think much of Italy** but we can manage. Shall have to post now. All love to you darling and to our Rob. Regards to the folks. Keep grinning. From your loving husband Ben.



    *"Buck" was a friend in the Bays, not sure yet what happened to him, but I have seen other refs to a chap in the Bays called Buckland (who appears to have survived the war - and this Bob Buckland - mentioned in link - may perhaps (as a longshot!) be him).
    BBC - WW2 People's War - Jack Merewood:To War with the Bays. Part 2

    (To quote from which: "On 17 November we were heading for Tmimi when to our surprise we were told we were going to hand over our tanks to the 22nd Armoured Brigade. They came and took all but three so that next day most of us travelled by lorry. My diary says: 'Buck and I rode on a lorry carrying diesel oil.'"

    The Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) : Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) | Famous Units | Research | National Army Museum, London

    **Italy actually declared war on the evening of the 10th June, to come into effect at midnight on that night.


    & an Interesting bit of info (at least for me!) here: http://www.9th12thla...45-bright/37839

    27th May: During morning 9th Lancers tasked with supporting General de Gaulle:
    28th May: During the next two days the French troops led by de Gaulle succeed in capturing Bailluel and Limeux but unfortunately failed to reach the Somme. Meanwhile elsewhere: Surrender of the Belgium Army
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY


    [sharedmedia=gallery:images:29462]


    Post card from Ben from Falmouth, immediately after arriving back from the BEF.

    Phil Darling,
    This will cheer you up, we have landed safely at Falmouth and hope to be given leave shortly. Apart from feeling very tired am none the worse for wear. Love to all and a big kiss for Rob and you. Your Ben.



    This gives a somewhat belated arrival back in Blighty and one that has slightly intrigued me as this arrival apparently at Falmouth was elsewhere to (and possibly later than) the regimental entry: "17th June: Arrival at Plymouth" : Regimental-Histories_1936-1945 Bright_0061.jpg - 9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum

    Warminster (where they went next, apparently almost immediately?) is in western Wiltshire between Salisbury and Bath.
    Warminster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No stamp, just a mark for 2.5 D, purely out of interest did he pay for this himself??? ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  6. BrianM59

    BrianM59 Senior Member

    After 17th June, the 10th Hussars were billeted in Sutton Veny Camp, a few miles outside Warminster - it's still there - I thought all the remnants of the 2nd Armoured Brigade were sent to the same place - I'll check my notes.
     
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks Brian (post#6)
    .............

    Also as I was looking into Operation Aerial arrivals at Falmouth in mid June 1940 (and co-incident their prior departures from Brest) - for the "stragglers" of the 9th L - I found this listing of data:

    Operation Aeriel, June 1940
    PRINSES JOSEPHINE CHARLOTTE sailed Falmouth 1628 (i.e. 4.28pm) / 17th for Brest.
    & At 0800 BROKE from British Naval Liaison Officer situation (at Brest) at 0800 18th June.

    1. Detachment of stragglers being embarked in (Prinses) JOSEPHINE CHARLOTTE
    ....and stumbled across the story of the actual evacuation of Mme de Gaulle

    Mme de Gaulle – evacuation from France.
    Warsailors.com :: Ship Forum :: Madame de Gaulle evacuation from France 1940
    Warsailors.com :: Ship Forum :: Re: Madame de Gaulle evacuation from France 1940

    Secret Flotillas, Volume 1 - By Brooks Richards
    Secret Flotillas

    LIFE 28 Jul 1941
    LIFE

    South West Secret Agents: True Stories of the West Country at War : By Laura Quigley - Re. Prinses Charlotte:
    South West Secret Agents

    Plenty of FOW and one or two facts are still debatable/debated no doubt ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  8. LondonNik

    LondonNik Senior Member

    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  9. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Hi Nick,

    Sorry, only what I see on the Regimental museums's site: 9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum - 9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum
    Where there are a few Phillimore's (much from the same family I guess) this about him though i.e.

    Regimental-Histories_1936-1945 Bright_0033.jpg - 9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum

    Regimental-Histories_1936-1945 Bright_396.jpg - 9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum

    And of course on the roll of honour.

    And this:

    THE HON. A. F. PHILLIMORE
    (E,
    1920-25) came to Morshead's, then under Mr. Irving,
    in 1920 from Sandroyd. He was the eldest of four brothers in the House, sons of the present
    Lord Phillimore, who was there 1893-98. He had the family independence, its strong individuality
    and its integrity of character. A rather dreamy junior with a vague air that appeared uncom–
    prehending till it was illuminated by a broad smile. He gave and took a full share of the fun
    of life. Being sent on an errand to School Shop by a prefect, he forgot its nature when he got there,
    and before he was back up at House to find out he had forgotten who had sent him. He showed
    exceptional promise as a poacher, and he saw further than most of us into the minds of dogs and
    other animals; this may have served him in good stead when he was with the Camel Corps in
    British Somaliland. He was a brave but definitely an amateur member of Commoner XV and
    of his House Soccer side. His attempt to re-start beagling in the School, like that of his brother
    Robert later, met with a disappointing response from the Headmaster. A misleading blankness
    of expression up to books led to an under-estimation of his intelligence which he found no dis–
    advantage to the enjoyment of School life.
    Some of his instructors were surprised when he entered the R.M.C. in 1925 high enough on the
    list to win a prize cadetship. He took a commission in the 9th Queen's Royal Lancers. He married
    in 1934 and left a son. On May 23, 1940, he went into one of the desperate engagements near
    Arras fought to cover the retreat to Dunkirk, and was not seen again.

    Page 177 - Wykehamist-War-Service-Record-and-Roll-of-Honour-1939-1945

    Looks very interesting though,

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  10. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Looking at my grandfather's records I see that he was awarded the 1939/43 Star on 18/4/1944

    Instituted by the UK on 8 July 1943, this later became the 1939/45 Star -

    The 1939–1945 Star was awarded for any period of operational service overseas between 3 September 1939 and either 8 May 1945 in Europe or 2 September 1945 in the Far East theatre.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939%E2%80%931945_Star

    And I was looking into the criteria: "Army personnel had to complete 180 days of service in an operational command"

    So I would have thought he would have got it when it was "announced"... however...

    "The institution of the 1939–1945 Star was announced on 8 July 1943 and in August it was announced that the first uniform ribbons would be issued to qualifying personnel later in that year. The medals themselves were not intended to be available until after the cessation of hostilities. Some ribbon issues to overseas troops were delayed, but many had been received by the end of 1943 and were worn by recipients throughout the remainder of the war"

    So.... the sense that I get about the date of the award for him 18/4/1944 held no particular "significance" ? It was just when the army got around to issuing his... unless I am misunderstanding something there?

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There is an interesting article here - on a website called "the Historical Eye": Volleyed and thundered

    On the "less well known" - "contribution to the armoured warfare during the Fall of France campaign" of the "actions of Britain’s 1st Armoured Division."

    e.g.

    "The 1st Armoured Division had arrived in Cherbourg only a few days beforehand and was composed of two brigades: the ‘Light’ 2nd Brigade and the ‘Heavy’ 3rd Brigade. The Queen’s Bays, the 9th Lancers and the 10th Hussars comprised 2nd Brigade. The 3rd Brigade, which was made up by the 2nd RTR (Royal Tank Regiment) and 5th RTR, was one regiment short – the 3rd RTR had been sent to take part in the doomed defence of Calais. There was another other serious problem: artillery and infantry from the division’s support group had been siphoned off for use in other theatres, defeating the purpose of it being a pocket strike force. Worse still, the 257 tanks of the Division were questionable in quality. The Vickers Mark VIB and VIC tanks were obsolete even by 1940 standards, while the division’s new and untested BESA machine guns had yet to be fitted into the tanks and had only just arrived in packing cases before embarkation. Many of the gunners had not been trained on using and maintaining this armament."
     
  12. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Hi Ramiles,

    9L war diary details arrival at PLYMOUTH on 17th (0500/0800) and entrainment for WESTBURY later that day (2000/2145) for onward road transport to WARMINSTER (0030) in "six small charabancs". On the train were 35 officers and 394 ORs from 9L. It also notes regimental strength on return from France was 555 ORs - that's over 150 more than returned in the main body.

    MarkNote1: This relates to the main body of 9L. By now, there were numerous stragglers detatched from the main body.
    MarkNote2: The war dairy entry actually records it as the 16th, but the author has managed to lose a day as he turned the page!!!!



    3,680 heads were counted disembarking at FALMOUTH from St. NAZAIRE during the 24hr period of 19th June (ie midnight to midnight). No details of units, nationalities or anything. Just a basic headcount.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
    Ramiles likes this.
  13. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    War diary notes:-
    20/0900 WIMBOURNE Sqdns marched to railway station and entrained.
    20/1200 Train arrived SOUTHAMPTON DOCKS and Regt embarked on SS Amsterdam. The drivers were already embarked on SS City of Auckland and the vehicles on a third ship.
    20/1600 Ships left dock and anchored in SOLENT
    20/2200 Convoy sailed...
    21/0500 Arrived CHERBOURG...
    21/0700 Disembarked...

    MarkNote3: Not recorded in the diary, but found elsewhere, an advance party (including the CO) had earlier arrived in France via Le HAVRE. I cannot remember the date off the top of my head.
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks MarkN (posts above)

    Google seems :) to be being quite generous :smug: at the moment:

    I "recently" saw/found this too:
    9th Lancers C Sqdn Unit history

    Which says: 9th Lancers C Sqdn Unit history - and also has a bit about them in May/June of 1940...

    To quote from which:

    "FRANCE, MAY 1940.

    After six months of "phoney" war of intense training in England, at Clare and then Wimborne, under the Squadron Leader, now Brigadier G.E. Prior-Palmer DSO, the Squadron sailed for France with the Regiment in the middle of May 1940. The Squadron was then in a very high state of training and efficiency and it was a great disappointment that we were equipped with such an inferior and mixed bag of tanks. Our landing at Cherbourg and subsequent dash northwards to the Somme was greatly impeded by the general move south of refugees, R.A.F. ground staff and Base Troops both French and British. We were regaled with many lurid stories of the fighting in Belgium.

    We stayed in the Somme area between Amiens and Abbeville for nearly a fortnight, dashing here, there and everywhere with no definite information about anything. Our days and sleepless nights were full of alarms and excursions. We had one or two brushes with German infantry and the Luftwaffe flew unopposed over our heads the whole time. During the first fortnight of June we withdrew back across the Seine, only just escaping the fate of the 51st Highland Division to which we had been attached. The Germans by now were hard on our heels and sometimes even in advance of the Echelon.

    Finally we left Le Mans to go non-stop to Brest: and so back to England exactly one month after landing, on the day that France capitulated.

    A few incidents stick in one's memory: RQMS Williams' (then 1st Troop Sergeant under Major Meyrick) first encounter with a German Anti-Tank Gun, with Cpl Tyler in the driver's seat of a Mk VI B: the first recorded B Echelon brew-up by Tpr Thurston in a wood near Dieppe, when he attempted to cook his dinner but only succeeded in cooking his petrol lorry: the Squadron Leader's head-on meeting on a motorcycle with a German "monster" tank: the first encounter of 3rd Troop (the only A. 13 Cruiser Troop) under Major Steel with German tanks in large numbers: SQMS Harriss, then 3rd Troop Sergeant A.W.O.L. for a week in the back of a 3-ton lorry full of NAAFI goods and French girls, after his A. 13 had had it: the occasion when RSM Blandford, then SSM, took by surprise and shot up 200 Boche: and finally, the band at Plymouth that greeted us, tired and dispirited, with the tune "We'll hang out our washing on the Siegfried Line".

    That was France 1940."
     
  15. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    3 Troop, C Squadron, 9 Lancers only had 3 A-13s. The only 3 in C Squadron.

    Here's one of them. Could be Major Steel''s or SQMS Harriss'....

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I saw too on the wiki page: Cruiser Mk IV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This quote: "Nine MkIV tanks captured by the Germans after the Battle of France, were reused as command vehicles for Panzer Abteilung (Flamm) .100 during Operation Barbarossa"

    And a ref'd link to this page where there are apparently some pictures of these, and their "new" not so careful owners there: Cruiser A13 Mk II page 3

    ..........

    Also... since I'd been looking out for people (nick)named "Buck" etc. associated with the "Bays" (since gd commented that he had a friend he nicknamed "Buck" in the Bays) I read this: World War Two - Part 1

    Which details the exploits of "The Queen's Bays" at around the same time (i.e. May and June 1940 etc but also later) and has also one or two mentions of the 9th Lancers there.

    There is a bit here (link) too about the armament of the Bays at various different times: Armament of 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards

    Albeit (at the moment at least) the "Armament" page seems to have perhaps a few broken links and/or pictures that are not currently being properly displayed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  17. JERICHO

    JERICHO Junior Member

    Hi,

    A 9th Lancers chariot recently located, this is the place called Croixdalle on the road to Neufchatel Rouen at the Mesnil Godefroy, it is the A9 Cruiser T7235

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    source: Google Street View


    Best regards

    Mathieu
     
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  18. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Ramiles,

    Further to my notes above, I have found that on 15th June 3 scout cars and 8 men under the command of 2LT KINGSCOTE was detached from 9L and sent off the GHQ as a protective troop. They accompanied GHQ thereafter and left St.Nazaire on 17th on a French tug transfering to the SS ULSTERMAN and arriving in FALMOUTH on 20th in the early morning. Scout cars were left behind.

    For some reason I had it in my head that you had a postcard from Falmouth dated the 19th. Reading back, you don't mention the date, so I'm going to punt the idea that the postcard was sent by one of those 8 chappies under 2LT KINGSCOTE's command.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  19. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    There is on the postcard a date stamp...

    ...showing (I think there) Monday 19th June 1944. Which I think would rule out "arriving in FALMOUTH on (Tuesday) 20th in the early morning" for my grandfather Ben Symes. He was in... R.H.Q. 9th Lancers

    7880500 Trooper B Symes
    R.H.Q. 9th Lancers
    B.E.F.


    However, and seems to have "pitched up" in Falmouth - and not in Plymouth with the "rest" of the 9th L.

    That... was after the main body - but I guess perhaps before those "led" by 2LT KINSCOTE (post above)

    "9L war diary details arrival at PLYMOUTH on 17th (0500/0800) and entrainment for WESTBURY later that day (2000/2145) for onward road transport to WARMINSTER (0030) in "six small charabancs". On the train were 35 officers and 394 ORs from 9L. It also notes regimental strength on return from France was 555 ORs - that's over 150 more than returned in the main body.

    MarkNote1: This relates to the main body of 9L. By now, there were numerous stragglers detatched from the main body.
    MarkNote2: The war dairy entry actually records it as the 16th, but the author has managed to lose a day as he turned the page!!!!"

    3,680 heads were counted disembarking at FALMOUTH from St. NAZAIRE during the 24hr period of 19th June (ie midnight to midnight). No details of units, nationalities or anything. Just a basic headcount.

    In terms of whom his immediate officer there was I am not sure. "Kingscote" though is not a name I am currently familiar with. My suspicion (tentative) would be that he (Ben) might have been with (whilst 9th L) one of the officers he transferred with later to the 24th L

    9th Royal Lancers

    Major.M.H.Aird. (Lt.Col Commanding.)
    Major.E.R.Pettit: For whom there is some biographical info here: Pettit, Edward Ronald - TracesOfWar.com

    Captain.J.D.Gilroy.

    Captain.D.S.Allhusen.
    2/Lieut.A.C.L.Wills. (Adjutant)
    2/Lieut.R.Arbuthnot.
    2/Lieut.H.O.D.Thwaites.
    2/Lieut.J.Phillimore.

    Lieut.S.Cottee. (Quartermaster)

    All of the above went to the 24th L from the 9th L when Ben did.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  20. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Regarding the dates, I seem to be going doo-lally......

    Nevertheless,

    KINGSCOTE Robin Nigel
    Captain 74746. Died 22nd July 1942 in the Middle East. Aged 23.
    Son of Maj. E. T. Kingscote and Frances Kingscote, of Malmesbury, Wiltshire; nephew of Violet Kingscote, of Malmesbury.
    Buried in EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY, Egypt. Plot XXI. Row H. Grave 2.

    [​IMG]
     
    Ramiles likes this.

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