Does anyone know if John Profumo Minister for War served in the Second House Cavalry Regiment during 1942/43 I was reading through some old News Paper articles regarding an accident involving a Humber Armoured car of this Regiment which crashed through the parapet of a canal bridge locally and three crew members ended up drowning. The first officer on site was a John Profumo and he gave evidence at the inquest. I don't know how common the name is.
Early life and career Profumo was born in Kensington, London,[2] the son of Albert Profumo, 4th Baron Profumo, a diplomat and barrister of Italian origin, who died in 1940. He was educated at Harrow School and Brasenose College, Oxford, where he read law and was a member of the Bullingdon Club. On 1 July 1939 he was commissioned into the Royal Armoured Corps as a second lieutenant,[3]service number 92407.[4] He had previously been a member of the Officer Training Corps and a Cadet Sergeant while at Harrow.[3] He served in North Africa with the Northamptonshire Yeomanry as a Captain (acting major), where he was mentioned in despatches.[4] He landed in Normandy on D-Day and was engaged in the subsequent fierce fighting to secure that region of France. His final rank in the British Army was brigadier. Major (temporary Lieutenant colonel) Profumo was appointed an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) (military) "in recognition of gallant and distinguished service in Italy", on 21 December 1944.[5] Specifically it was for his service on Field Marshal Harold Alexander's staff commanding the 15th Army Group. In November 1947 Acting Colonel Profumo was awarded the Bronze Star Medal by the United States "in recognition of distinguished services in the cause of the Allies".[6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo
Duplicate threads merged. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7380263 .http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7402030
That's the sort of information I was finding so no direct reference or proof that he was in the regiment even in the country in early 1943.
He was injured in a Motorcycle Collision (with a lorry) in which he ended up in plaster and damaged both shoulders in 1943 ? Despite his record stating he fought in Normandy in 1944 the press reports for late June/July 44 state he was present for Salute the Soldier Week in London?? The Armoured Car accident happened at Trowbridge two were killed in the Accident one died in Hospital (295490 Tpr Louis Walsh Lifeguards) a fourth crew member survived (Tpr Percy Smith) WALSH, LOUIS Rank: Trooper Service No:295490 Date of Death:04/01/1943 Age:27 Regiment/Service:Life Guards Grave Reference: Grave 31. Cemetery:BARNBROUGH CHURCH CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Stephen and Maggie May Walsh; husband of Elizabeth Walsh, of Harlington Three who were killed ;- TAYLOR, WILLIAM JAMES Rank: Lieutenant Service No:149077 Date of Death:03/01/1943 Regiment/Service:Gordon Highlanders Grave Reference:Panel 3. Cemetery: BRISTOL (ARNOS VALE) CREMATORIUM GOWER, WARWICK DAVID Rank: Trooper Service No:71374 Date of Death:03/01/1943 Age:21 Regiment/Service:Life Guards Grave Reference: Sec. A.A. Grave 235. Cemetery:TROWBRIDGE CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Jack Gower, and stepson of F. Whiting, of Amersham, Buckinghamshire As the Lieutenant who was killed wasn't life guards either perhaps Profumo was `attached` Kyle Western Daily Press - Wednesday 10 February 1943
London Gazette.23 SEPTEMBER, 1943 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36180/supplement/4222/data.pdf The KING has been graciously pleased to approve that the following be Mentioned in recognition of gallant and distinguished services in North Africa. I Northants. Yeo. Capt. (temp. Maj.) J. D. Profumo, M.P. (92407). 7883219 W.O.II. (Q.M.S.) B. R. Kaddy.
My source was the Wiltshire Times. The actual location was the Seend Cleeve Canal Bridge. The driver was closed down and there was a fault with his hatch which only left the smallest part open. The driver had the key to the door and they had to wait until another Humber could be called up to borrow their key to gain access. I assume your reference is from the British News Papers Archive? If you can find anything on the bombing of Trowbridge Barracks during which Troop Maurice Rogers was killed I would be interested. I am working on a plaque for Trowbridge's three war-time fatalities but not as much support from the Local Council as I was expecting.
Minor addition to the thread: I noted in the 38th (Irish) Brigade war diaries: “On the 8th December (1944), we were visited by Lt Colonel John Profumo and Mr Stokes, MP for Ipswich…...They wished to see the conditions of front line troops generally and to learn our complaints and needs and our views in general. It was impossible for them to visit a battalion due to the time factor and a walk up a nearby hill to see the ground proved fruitless due to the rain and mist. Lt Col (Bala) Bredin, Commander of 2 LIR, came down to Brigade HQ to see them and also Rev D Kelleher RA ChD. Rifleman Barry spoke to Mr Stokes and in general expressed and represented the thoughts and wishes of the men themselves…....Among other things mentioned to them was getting Irishmen into the Irish Brigade. As Mr Stokes was half Irish, he said he would look into them when he got home. Judging by telegrams alleged to have been sent by the Prime Minister to AFHQ on this subject, he seemed to have done his best…" Richard Stokes raised another point with the Secretary of State of War on his return to the House of Commons as Hansard notes him asking Sir Percy James Grigg: “...whether he is now satisfied that the supply of thick woollen socks to the troops in Italy is adequate; and whether the shortages in the unit, of which he has been advised, reported to him by cable on 11th December, have now been made good.”
The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography advises that the Profumo family was Sardinian in origin, with John Profumo’s grandfather, Joseph, settling in London and becoming a British subject. It would therefore seem unlikely that Profumo would be a common name in Britain. The Army List and London Gazette reveal a Phillip Profumo serving with the Life Guards, John's younger brother. There appears to be a strong family resemblance judging by this portrait. Possibly John was there by chance, visiting Phillip, informally attached for the exercise maybe. A couple of odd asides stem from my enquiries. Upon his father’s death in 1940, John became the 5th Baron Profumo, an Italian barony, and would unusually have been simultaneously a Baron and a member of the House of Commons. Also, I was struck by John’s precipitate reduction in rank from Brigadier to 2nd Lieutenant (Army List, April 1946).
A few puzzles in his military / wartime career, for example the Northamptonshire Yeomanry were not deployed to North Africa / Italy. A brief Wiki entry refers to them landing in France in June 1944, as part of the 33rd Armoured Brigade (17/3/44–18/8/45): Northamptonshire Yeomanry - Wikipedia and 33rd Armoured Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia The 2nd Northants Yeomanry had a short time in France, in 1944, before being disbanded. At one point Profumo joined a small party to go to the USA, to advise them on tank construction etc. Alas the entry lacks dates. See: 'Yeomen of England: Tales of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry 1794-1966 by Ken Tout. One soldier's autobiography refers to: From: Whalley centenarian and war hero publishes 100 copies of his book for charity Alamy has a B&W photo with the caption: Note Carthage is in Tunisia, not Libya nd this was after the Axis surrender. Link: Winston Churchill at the Headquarters of the British 1st Army at Carthage, Libya, John Profumo is behind Churchill taking a photograph. 1st June 1943 Stock Photo - Alamy His OBE citation refers to: The US Bronze Star award states: Was he always a staff officer? This blogsite entry suggests so: Link: Historical men and women: Jack Profumo and the Profumo Affair The Daily Telegraph Obituary refers to: Not behind a pay-wall: John Profumo Richelieu refers to: Strange then The London Gazette 14/11/1947 shows him, when awarded the US Bronze Star, as: From: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/38122/supplement/5353/data.pdf "Reading between the lines" could the antipathy of some Conservative MPs and even General McArthur, known as I recall for not being an Anglophile explain? As indicated in this obituary: John Profumo Enough, back to emails and stuff.
No conspiracy that I can see David. I think that the Gazette will have published the rank at the time of the award rather than the date of publication – many will have long since left the services by the time their awards were published, especially late MiDs and foreign awards. (353) - Army lists > Quarterly Army Lists (Second Series), July 1940-December 1950 > 1946 > First quarter > Part 1 > Volume 1 - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland Profumo seems to have held high temporary rank appropriate to the roles that he was undertaking, while being a war substantive Major, reverting to his army rank of 2nd Lieutenant on demobilisation.
It is interesting to note in the light of today’s news (https://committees.parliament.uk/wo...duct-of-rt-hon-boris-johnson-mp/publications/ - please remember the house rules folks!) that it is extremely rare for a Privy Councillorship to be revoked. Profumo was the last case almost sixty years ago to the day, and this at his own request. He appears to have retained his OBE as far as I can see. Page 5533 | Issue 43041, 28 June 1963 | London Gaze...
