8th Bn, Royal Warwickshire Regiment 1940

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by Shane_DXB, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. Shane_DXB

    Shane_DXB Member

    I am the grandson of Mr Leslie John Blud - 5109677.
    I am trying gain clarity as to how and where he was captured by the German Army and hopefully be able to find reputable information relative to the 4+ years he was a POW.
    I don't believe he was part of the Wormhout Massacre (as some 8th Bn were - yet to be confirmed) but undoubtedly part of the action in/around Dunkirk/Comines Canal/Escaut Canal.
    What we do know is that he was shot at close range and of course survived. He laid deathly still under dead body/s until clear, and was then taken captive some days later by a regular German Army troop. My Gran has said they (the few survivors) were treated surprisingly well at this time, and throughout his 4+ years as a POW.
    Over the course of the war, he was marched from France/Belgium as far east as Poland. Specifics of when and where are totally unknown, and this is where I would dearly love to gain more information.
    Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just to start the ball rolling

    UK, British Prisoners of War, 1939-1945
    Name: L J Blud
    Rank: Lance Corporal
    Army Number: 5109677
    Regiment: The Royal Warwickshire Regiment
    POW Number: 13902
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: XX-A
    Camp Location: Torun, Poland

    This will probably be the last POW camp he was in, hopefully the other 1940 experts will be along to answer some of your question.

    Obtaining his service records may help as they may hold information to help, the link you need for these is Request records of deceased service personnel

    There is no mention of him in the Regimental history unfortunately. Do you have information on the date he was captured ?

    TD

    Extra - check out the details on this site for The Red Cross as they hold details for your relation BUT it takes patience to obtain these details - the link I believe is Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or the Second World War: Quarterly limit reached
     
  3. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Missing/wounded 21st May 1940 later confirmed PoW
    GBM_WO417_014_0132.jpg

    Kyle
     
  4. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    5109677 BLUD L/Cpl L J 8 Bn. Royal Warwickshire Regiment

    Casualty List No. 247 Dated 5 July 1940
    Wounded & Missing 21.5.1940

    Casualty List No. 287 Dated 21 August 1940
    POW previously reported as missing

    Casualty List No. 1746 Dated 2 May 1945
    Previously reported POW in German hands now not POW
     
    Shane_DXB, bamboo43 and Tricky Dicky like this.
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Have sent a 'conversation' to Drew to let him know about this thread, hopefully he will be along soon - Shane, member Drew is our 1940 BEF expert

    TD
     
    Shane_DXB likes this.
  6. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Forum member Drew 5233, sent me some information on the action at Escaut Canal in relation to another 8 RWK soldier and Dunkirk survivor who went on to serve in Burma. In the hope that this might be of use I attach it here. I believe that it comes from the Regimental History and battalion War diary:
     

    Attached Files:

    Shane_DXB, dbf and Tricky Dicky like this.
  7. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Press cutting
    Evening Despatch 22 August 1940
    midland soldiers.jpg

    Kyle
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hello and welcome to the forum

    Have you applied for copy service records?
    Request records of deceased service personnel

    As far as his time as POW there are two ways to find out more:
    Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or the Second World War: Quarterly limit reached
    "The maximum number of requests that our staff can deal with has been reached. Service will resume on 20 May 2019."
    You will have to wait for the new date, and then apply very quickly on that day.

    The other way is to check - or have someone check for you - the Liberation questionnaires that are held at The National Archives at Kew. Not every POW completed a form and the information contained in forms can vary.
    War Office: Directorate of Military Intelligence: Liberated Prisoner of War Interrogation Questionnaires | The National Archives

    See here for examples:
    interrogation questionnaires | WW2Talk

    Good luck with your research
     
    Shane_DXB likes this.
  9. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    The National Archives also have his German POW card. Looks like it has been digitised (the archives team are currently processing the thousands of cards they have) still sealed under the 100 year rule but you could probably put in a freedom of information request and get it.

    Name: Leslie [J] Blud . Date of Birth: 1919 . | The National Archives
     
    Shane_DXB, dbf and Tricky Dicky like this.
  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Those men who died or were killed their cards are available now .
    Name: [Guy Ballin] [Glover] . Date of Birth: [unspecified] . Place of Birth:... | The National Archives

    This is a Captain of 8th Warwicks captured on the same day 21/05/1940 and died of wounds ? (CWGC have 20/05/1940)
    Reference: WO 416/140/198
    Description:
    Name: [Guy Ballin] [Glover].

    Date of Birth: [unspecified].

    Place of Birth: [unspecified].

    Service: British Army.

    Rank: Captain.

    Regiment/Unit/Squadron: [8th Battalion], Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

    Service Number: [44405].

    Date of Capture: [unspecified].

    Theatre of Capture: [unspecified].

    Camp Name/Number: [unspecified].

    PoW number: [unspecified].

    Date of Death: 21/5/1940.

    Number of Photographs: 0.

    Number of Fingerprints: 0.

    Number of X-rays: 0.

    Number of Cards: 2.

    Date: [1939-1945]
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
    Access conditions: Open on Transfer
    Record opening date: 03 December 2014

    Relevant past thread on the subject

    8th Royal Warwicks, Calonne, 21.05.1940 account of action??

    Kyle
     
    Shane_DXB likes this.
  11. Shane_DXB

    Shane_DXB Member

    Hi all,
    I am overwhelmed with all of this information. I cannot thank you all enough already.
    I have sent a request for his POW records, and hopefully will have an answer within the next 3 weeks.
    Knowing he was in Torun, Poland at the end of the war is great to know, and will give me some momentum referencing coming and going from there - a good reference point.

    Please do keep the info coming.
    Attached are a few photos sent to me from my Aunt just a few days ago. Hopefully some of you find some interest in them.
    However, I am having a little trouble trying to decipher what is written beside there Campaigns column. Understand it says France + Germany, but the wording above I can't work out. If anyone can read it, please do let me know.

    Also, one of the attachments from Bamboo43 - 8RWK General History, it mentioned two towns/areas named Bruyelle and Hollain. Searching on Google Maps/Earth - there doesn't seem to be towns of these names. A search for Bruyelle comes back with Bruxelles and Hollain nothing. Could this be a typo?

    Please do keep the valuable info coming.

    Many thanks.

    Shane.


    Good morning,
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    It says service o/seas
    France + POW Germany 11.1.40 19.4.45

    It also notes he was awarded 1939 - 43 Star - it shows the age of the record as this medal was never issued, but eventually became the 1939 - 1945 Star

    1939–1945 Star - Wikipedia
    On 8 July 1943, the 1939–43 Star (later named the 1939–1945 Star)

    Bruyelle certainly exists as there is a CWGC Cemetery there - Cemetery
    Bruyelle — Wikipédia

    Hollain - Hollain - Wikipedia

    TD
     
    Shane_DXB and Incredibledisc like this.
  13. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter 1940 Obsessive

    Shane_DXB and Tricky Dicky like this.
  14. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    He should also have been awarded the British War Medal which was given to all those who served in the war.

    If I’ve read the photo you posted correctly he was in the TA and would therefor also be eligible for the Territorial Efficiency Medal. You had to be in the TA 12 years to get it but war service counted as double so if he enlisted in 1937 and was discharged in 1945 he would have been able to claim it. It is quite likely that he did not claim so it is worth making enquiries to the MOD medal office. If you are next of kin you may be able to claim on his behalf - I claimed for my great grandad (on my mum’s behalf) last year. Unlike the other medals this one comes engraved with his name, service number and Regiment and also gets him a mention in the London Gazette.
     
    Shane_DXB likes this.
  15. Shane_DXB

    Shane_DXB Member

    I have his medals at home. I will get the out tonight and photograph and share. As he always told us..."I was just a regular old foot soldier who had to do a hell of a lot of walking and marching, so my medals aren't much". Of which my Gran and Aunt have since told me that every year during the ANZAC parade (he moved to Oz late 1940's as a £10 Pom) he would NEVER march as he did enough of it during the way. And something I learned just the other day was that he'd never line up for food if out at a restaurant or bistro etc - again, he'd lined up to get fed every day for over 4 years and that he'd sit and wait until the line went down.

    Again, thanks to you all for this continued help and information. It is greatly appreciated and being passed on to my whole family, and my 92yr old Gran.
     
    Incredibledisc likes this.
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
    Name: Mr L J Blud
    Gender: Male
    Age: 27
    Birth Date: abt 1920
    Departure Date: 25 Feb 1947
    Port of Departure: London, England
    Destination Port: Sydney, Australia
    Ship Name: Orion
    Search Ship Database: Search for the Orion in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
    Shipping Line: Orient Line
    Official Number: 164493
    Master: C Fox
    41039_b001605-00273.jpg
    41039_b001605-00286.jpg

    TD
     
    Incredibledisc and Shane_DXB like this.
  17. Shane_DXB

    Shane_DXB Member

    Doing a bit of cross-referencing, could I rule out the fact he was NOT in Belgium? I base this on the file that was shared the other day from Kyle (attached for reference) wounded and missing in France? In essence removing Bruyelle and Hollain out of the equation as the other mentioned fighting that the 8th Bn were engaged in was Wormhout - some 90km away from Hollain. Hollain and Callone are small villages around Antoing, Belgium, but...it is only approx 10km from the French border, which then leads me to the idea that they were quite spread out and potentially fighting in France and not Belgium???
    I'm confused...
     

    Attached Files:

    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    He was in Belgium at the time - I doubt the frontiers have actually changed but when reference is made on records it often refers to France when in fact they could have been in France/Belgium or in some circumstances Holland.

    Its just what it was referred to - no one was going to be that geographically strict

    TD
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    Shane_DXB likes this.
  19. Shane_DXB

    Shane_DXB Member

    Is it known how the 8th Bn got to Antoing? Would it have been a train from the barracks in Warwickshire to the coast, then a boat over to Dunkirk then marching/land transport to the front line?
    Part of the reason for my research is that I am planning to cycle the route my grandfather had taken throughout the war, with the hope of stopping at key points along the way, meeting local townsfolk/historians etc. and really get a feeling of where he went all them dark years ago.

    Shane
     
  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    8 Royal Warwickshire Regiment | The National Archives
    Reference: WO 167/841
    Description:
    8 Royal Warwickshire Regiment
    Date: 1940 Jan.-May
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
    Access conditions: Open Immediately

    TD
     
    Shane_DXB likes this.

Share This Page