8th Armoured Division Engineers

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by DavidW, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Can anyone help me with a date of arrival in North Africa for the Engineers of the 8th Atmoured Division?
    Thanks in advance, David.
     
  2. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    I would assume they arrived with the division in Egypt on July 5th, 1942. They consisted of 6th and 9th Field Squadrons, RE and 145th Field Park Squadron, RE.
     
  3. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks.
     
  4. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Can anyone identify any 13 Corps Engineer units for North Africa prior to 1943?

    I have 576th Corps field Park Company & 578th Army Field Company. Are these correct?

    Thanks in advance,
    David.
     
  5. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    XIII Corps Troops Engineers XIII Corps formed in Cyrenaica 1 Jan 1941 from HQ Western Desert Force, with existing units under command (2nd, 12th, and 54th Field Coys RE and 141st Field Park Coy RE) . The corps was relieved Feb 1941 and became defunct in Egypt. A new HQ Western Desert Force was formed in Apr 1941, and it in turn became a new XIII Corps 26 Sep 1941 in Egypt. In 1942 its CTRE were formed from Hampshire Corps Troops RE companies. The corps served in North Africa, Sicily 1943, and Italy from Sep 1943.
    Reformed with 577th and 578th Army Field Coys RE and 576th Corps Field Park Coy RE. 56th Field Coy RE added by Jul 1943.
     
  6. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks.

    Any idea which Companies comprised the Hampshire Corps Troops RE companies?
     
  7. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    The 577th FC, 578th FC and the 576th FPC were formed from the Hampshire Fortress RE.

    The group started out in 1939 as the Hampshire Fortress Engineers as shown below:

    Hampshire Fortress Engineers [3 Sep 1939: HQ Portsmouth] With Portsmouth Coast Defences Sep 1939. Hampshire Corps Troops RE formed by Sep 1940 (576th-579th Coys).
    No. 1 (EL and Works) [3 Sep 1939: Portsmouth]
    No. 2 (206th) (EL & Works) Coy [3 Sep 1939: Portsmouth]

    They became the Hampshire Corps Troops Engineers in September 1940 and were first assigned to IV Corps.

    Hampshire Corps Troops Engineers Formed by Sep 1940 in Home Forces from Hampshire Fortress Engineers and Cinque Ports Fortress Engineers. By the end of 1940, redesignated as IV Corps Troops RE.
    Formed with 577th and 578th Army Field Coys RE and 576th Corps Field Park Coy RE (from Hampshire Fortress Engineers) and 579th Army Field Coy RE (from Cinque Ports Fortress Engineers).

    When they moved overseas to Egypt they became the XIII Corps Troops Engineers.
     
  8. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Any idea when in 1942 the Hampshire Companies arrived in N.A.?

    (2nd, 12th, and 54th Field Coys RE and 141st Field Park Coy RE)

    David, I have a 141st Field Park Squadron in 10th Armoured Division (1942) is that the same unit as the 141st Field Park Coy above?
     
  9. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Yes. Just a change in terminology.
     
  10. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    Thanks
     
  11. DavidW

    DavidW Well-Known Member

    David,
    Was the War Establishment of an Army Field Company, or a Fortress Company any different to that of a Field Company?
    Thanks.
     
  12. MARK R

    MARK R Junior Member

    XIII Corps Troops Engineers XIII Corps formed in Cyrenaica 1 Jan 1941 from HQ Western Desert Force, with existing units under command (2nd, 12th, and 54th Field Coys RE and 141st Field Park Coy RE) . The corps was relieved Feb 1941 and became defunct in Egypt. A new HQ Western Desert Force was formed in Apr 1941, and it in turn became a new XIII Corps 26 Sep 1941 in Egypt. In 1942 its CTRE were formed from Hampshire Corps Troops RE companies. The corps served in North Africa, Sicily 1943, and Italy from Sep 1943.
    Reformed with 577th and 578th Army Field Coys RE and 576th Corps Field Park Coy RE. 56th Field Coy RE added by Jul 1943.

    If its helpful to add to the thread; My Grandfather served as a Sapper with 578 Field company RE. Many of the unit members were TA troops from 206 Company R.E. posted to 'Hampshire Fortress' at the end of 1937 - No3 Company (Hants) Fortress was based on the Isle of Wight at the begining of the war. 578 Field Company embarked for service overseas on 14.06.42. My Grandfather's service records show Middle East service from 14.07.42 so I think it reasonable to assume this date as the unit arriving in theatre and subsequently the formation of CTRE. The Field company (and therefore XIII Corps/ 8th Army) became British North Africa Force w.e.f. 29.08.43 which very much corresponds with serving through Sicily and Italy in 1943. I can confirm the field company were engaged in El Al Alamein and Monte Casino. 578 Field Squadron returned to UK in 1945 and eventually became 578 Coast Squadron TA.

    Regards

    Mark R
     
  13. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Mark R:

    That fills in some nice details regarding the 206th Field Company and the 578th. Thanks for taking the time to add to the thread.

    David
     
  14. MARK R

    MARK R Junior Member

    We’ll having survived the first posting on 578 Field Company with a positive review, again if its useful, given the family connections let me offer up what else I know about the unit or at least consolodate the information;

    206 Field Company was a T.A. unit based predominantly in Bournemouth. My Grandfather re- joined the T.A. in January 1931 (from previous service with the Royal Field Artillery 1920-24) and it was to this unit he was first posted. His service records show a posting to 3066 Company in January 1935 but a further posting to 206 in’1935’. He was posted to “Hampshire Fortress” in November 1937, called up for service September 1938 and posted to No.2 Company same date. In May 1939 he was posted to No.3 Company (on the Isle of Wight) and “Embodied” August 1939. As already indicated, Posted to 578 (Hants) Army Field Company 18th May 1940, they embarked for service overseas 14.06.42. with the unit joining the theater of war ‘Middle East’ 14.07.42 (until 28.08.43) and British North Africa Force 29.08.43 ( until 24.07.45). Later, In July 1945, still with 578 Hampshire Army Field Company he was attached to the assembly centre and in late October ’45 released to Army Reserve. On the 7th May 1947 he was discharged, services being no longer required on re-enlistment into the TA and the following day he was re-enlisted and was posted to 578 Coast Squadron (TA). On the 16th October 1947 he was posted to 115 Construction Engineer Regiment, where he served in Bournemouth until his termination of engagement in May 1960. Now, I appreciate you will not be in the slightest bit interested in my Grandfather per se, but I know that he didn’t change units and that largely speaking, all his mates from 206 Company served together throughout WW2 and afterwards; as such the postings were largely ‘administrative and indicative of the units’ name change(s). Interestingly, my Father later served with the same TA uinit (’578 Squadron’) in 1953 - 1956....another slight name change!

    Back to the 8th Army thread; As a Field Company, the 578 served with distinction; a Cpl Guy Bailey won a MM on the 12th December 1942 for leadership during a minefield clearance incident, and a further 3 MM’s were won in the opening days of the battle of El Alamein; on the 23rd October 1943 L/Cpl Wain and Spr Haigh won their medals for their actions involving the operation of ‘Scorpion’s’ – Matilda Tanks equipped for mine clearance, as did Spr Cullen the following day. El Alamein was the first operation in which Scorpions were used and the driver (a Sapper) of the auxiliary engine (which drove the mine flails) was housed in a small cab, armored only against small arms, on the outside of the tank. – the recommending Officer Commanding C.R.E. XIII Troops was a Lt Col L.F.R Kenyan (later Colonel, mentioned in dispatches and awarded the DSO) I think this particular officer was involved in the Island of Kos action later in 1943.

    Later in Italy, on the 13th May 1944 a Lt Kraly was awarded an MC for maintaining AMAZON Bridge over the River Rapido whilst under heavy fire. The recommending Officer for XIII Corps Engineer Troops was a Brig. J.C. Walkey OBE (later to become Maj Gen, CB, CBE and Engineer-in-Chief at the War Office in 1957). I also have a photograph obtained from the Imperial war Museum of Sappers from 578 attaching explosives to a partly demolished bridge South of Isernia 5th November 1943.

    A Sgt Hill received a MM for actions sweeping safe lanes between 1st April – 2nd May 1945 and 12th-15th April 1945 on the advance from BOROG TOSSIGNANO to IMOLA assisting the advance of XIII Corps into the PO valley.

    Finally, a Sgt BRENNAN was awarded a BEM for the leadership of his platoon in keeping open a vital XIII Corps axis in January- March 1945 and more generally throughout the ’45 winter campaign. The recommending Officer in this case was a Lt Col. Hawker OBE (later Col., DSO OBE TD).

    As far as I know, the last of the 578 ‘Old Boys’ of WW2 passed away in the Bournemouth area in October 2011 aged 96.

    Hope this helps to flesh out the history of 578 a little bit more, …………

    Kind regards

    Mark R
     
    Graham Anstey likes this.
  15. MARK R

    MARK R Junior Member

    By the way, I'm very interested in the activities of 578 Field Company R.E. and their preceeding unit(s) especially over WW2. Like most of his generation, my Grandfather didn't and wouldn't talk much about his war time experiences very much, so if anyone has additional information about the unit to enable me to piece together his (lengthy) service with them, it would be very warmly welcomed. Thank you.

    Kind regards

    Mark R
     
  16. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Mark:

    Kudos for an excellent summary. I am always amazed at the well-researched responses that appear in this forum.

    Dryan67
     
  17. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Mark
    Thank you for an excellent view of 578 Army Fld Coy
     
  18. Graham Anstey

    Graham Anstey Member

    Wrt Hampshire Fortress...

    My father joined the RE in April 1939 and was posted to "3 Coy Hants (Fortress)" in April 1940. He was then posted to 578 (Hampshire) Army Fld Coy in May 1940, and "No 2 (F.B) Depot Battn" in Nov 1940 His record (Form B200B) then shows "E.T.T. Group | Absent without leave, 9 hours". I assume that this was him and 30 others reporting for duty late. I've attached a scan of the relevant form and would be grateful could provide any links to info on 3 Coy and 578 Fld Coy, and an explanation as to what E.T.T Group might mean.

    He also told us on many occasions that he was stationed on the Isle of Wight (Culver Cliff) for a period at the start of the war, but I was too young then to quiz him on what he actually did, but he clearly had fond memories of that time, and we spent many family holidays on the island at Whitecliff Bay. Any info relating to this would also be gratefully received.

    Many thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Graham Anstey

    Graham Anstey Member

    Just been doing a bit more digging and wonder if E.T.T. Group means Edinburgh Technical Training Group?
     
  20. sjw8

    sjw8 Well-Known Member

    Graham

    I believe you are correct looking at the third extract (B200B page 2a) posted above. There were several "Technical Training Groups" scattered around the country, which were adminstered by 2 (Field Branch) D.B.R.E. (e.g. No 22, N.W.L.T.T.G., located in North West London).

    Steve W
    a.k.a. sjw8
     

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