8th Armoured Brigade, Tank Casualties, 1945

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by dbf, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Dbf - It's the Serial No.: A.69. in post #34.

    Mistyped - my fault.

    Do you have pictures of that tank and maybe more of the others of the KO'd Staffs Yeo. These are very interesting documents which I might integrate in a new thread/topic on the Rees Bridgehead, if that is allright with you. From 24 - 26 March the Staffordshires battled alongside the 51st Highland Division in the bridgehead.

    Attached: one of the Staffs Yeo casualties ...or is it 44th Royal tanks(15th Scottish Division area)? Cannot read the full serial number on this one, looks to start with T147.....

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Pieter, I put up what I have, and information typed here - barring the odd typo - is as given on the document.

    If there is a " - " next to Photo or to Figure, that means the original document has nothing to reference... so no photos available.

    [Anything in brackets will be a correction, or an annotation not in the original] I checked A.69 against the original and have added a note accordingly. It does make sense for it to be March.
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Hi dbf,

    Thanks for posting this great thread, there's a good chance about half a dozen or so of these are "B" squadron tanks of the SRY.

    "B" squadron tanks of the SRY led the advance for some significant periods on the road to Cloppenburg and had quite a few tanks brewed up in and around Cloppenburg. (Ps. I am not sure if the A and B suffixes on the series no. have any ref to SRY tank squadron (???) Most for these seem to be serial #'s starting with A though there is one B - that's probably just a coincidence and not at all squad related?)

    re specifically post#19: "Serial No.: A.59."

    Is this date i.e. "Date: 1 April 1945" perhaps just for a reference for this tank and the tanks (perhaps?) below it being destroyed just in the month of April? Only because if this one was destroyed on the 1st April 1945 I think the SRY being in Cloppenburg would put them too far advanced of where the rest of the 8th Armoured was in April 1945 : http://www.warlinks.com/armour/8th_armoured/chapter_6.php
    "For six days the (8th Armoured) division advanced in face of enemy rearguards which defended every village and bottleneck. Blown bridges, mines and road blocks were encountered without end. On 11th April 130 Brigade and the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry took the lead on the right hand road. Two days later the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry were on the outskirts of Kloppenburg where a very stiff action was fought far into the night before the town fell. The last main road from Bremen to Holland was now severed."

    Regiment: Nottinghamshire Yeomanry Sherwood Rangers

    Serial No.: A.59.

    Mark: V

    W.D. No.: 288593

    Date: 1 April 1945

    Photo No.: 16

    Figure No.: 8, 10
    8 - http://i899.photobuc...zpsde13a72f.jpg
    10 - http://i899.photobuc...zps35ae3252.jpg

    Range: 20 yards

    Cause of Damage: H.C. penetration

    Fire Damage: Confined fire

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Moving into CLOPPENBURG, was fired at from the first floor of a house. Turret found at 12 o'clock.

    Position of Hit: Penetration 25 mm. diameter through the top of the left hand side of the turret in front of and above the revolver port.

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: Inside diameter of hole 16 mm. Jet appears to have gone across the turret and hit the opposite side, above the Commander's seat. The turret and front compartments had been burnt, but not the engine. The Commander and Operator might have been hit by the jet.

    Remarks: Tank seen.

    Fate of Crew:
    Commander and Operator: Killed
    Gunner: Superficial wound face, with injury to right eye. Multiple minute F.B's superficially in face. Discharged hospital in 16/52. Category E.
    Driver and Co-Driver: Unhurt.
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    As far as I am aware, A, B, C, D are image references only and don't apply to squadrons. I've no idea why they organised them in this way. It's been some time since I read the file.

    From [sharedmedia=gallery:albums:205]
    the page transcribed...

    I've posted up this and other related threads so that others might make use of them, rather than them languishing on my hard drive. I'm afraid though, I have no interest in the cases which aren't Guards related.

    To clarify the background to the file: the purpose of the investigation was mainly to determine and compare casualties between tank types and the circumstances in which they happened, in order to try and improve crew safety. It was conducted by two RAMC personnel and they state that information was shared with varying degrees of co-operation by the units involved. With that in mind and the fact that doctors would be more interested in the fate of the human casualties, it's not surprising that errors occurred ... even through my own typos. I and other members have found a few inconsistencies within the file, not least of which - one entire armoured unit was named incorrectly.

    If anyone finds a typo, please let me know and I will amend the post asap. :)
  5. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    If I remember correctly the A/B/C/D refers (mainly) to tank type.
    dbf likes this.
  6. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks all,

    I've been muddling around doing a bit of ham fisted detecting on these all and have sumarised my (ever changing!) thoughts at the moment at: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57495-the-sherwood-rangers-in-april-1945/?p=668799

    Since the "A" series seems to be the most common - I'd guess it's probably a standard Sherman? - and "B" perhaps might be a Firefly???

    The others... I don't know but they don't seem to be types/ones that the SRY used (or at least had lost up to this point) I'm not sure what a Stuart tank for example would be? Or if they were even using these at this stage in the campaign?

    Thanks again for all the excellent info and all the best,

  7. Albowie

    Albowie Junior Member

    Thanks for taking the time to go through these and share them with us. Tank A-42 is the well documented "Shaggy Dog" which has answered conclusively what sort of Sherman III she was
    IWM B 14678

    Sorry but I can't workout how to post an image here
    dbf likes this.
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    (edit: didn't see you put photo in Gallery- click the My Media button at top of reply box & select that photo from your Gallery images)
    use Embed BBCode at bottom of IWM photo page.
    copy & paste the code into your post

    THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (B 14678)IWM Non Commercial Licence
  9. Packhow75

    Packhow75 Senior Member

    Firefly are "IC" and "VC".
  10. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Picture of the KO'd Staffordshire Sherman with the blown off turret, abandoned in front of the Mooshövel farmstead (which is to the right, not visible on this photograph). The Milk factory (with chimney) of Klein Esserden is visible behind the bund. See also: RHINE CROSSING 1945: The Rees bridgehead (51st Highland Div in operation 'Turnscrew')
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
    dbf and Ramiles like this.
  11. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Not sure about this one, but two Shermans of the 13/18th Hussars were knocked out by SP guns near Megchelen on March 28th, 1945. Might this be the MK V with serial number A.39? Damage to the tank fits the description. Photograph is from the local memorial in front of the village church.

    IMG_0274 a.jpg

    Same tank different angle:
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  12. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    The casualties of the 13/18th Hussars for the 28th are given as follows:

    003 MASON J 14653026 'H' SQN, 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 28/03/1945 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    This makes Serial Number B.74, with the entire crew killed, a serious candidate for the second tank that was knocked out at Megchelen.
  13. This is definitely not a Sherman V (or Sherman Vc), but a Sherman Ic (hybrid), thus not Serial A.39 WD No. T232471.

  14. What can be guessed of the WD Registration number faintly visible on the after part of the hull is not compatible with Tank Casualty B.74 WD No.263610 : it looks as though its ends with '09'.

    The visible penetrations include one in the left front corner and another at the rear of the hull side.

  15. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    So, as far as the photographed tank wreckage is concerned, that leaves us without a match to any of the investigated tanks :unsure:.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  16. karlmcd

    karlmcd Junior Member

    The tank of Sgt.Harry Sage who was killed with Tpr.George Fletcher 13 April 45.
    John Snedker, from another tank who had let them go past, was killed trying to rescue the crew.
    Picture...George Fletcher

    Attached Files:

    dbf and Ramiles like this.
  17. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian Patron


    With regards to the Staffordshire Yeomanry tank lost at Bienen on the night of 25/26 March. I am wondering if it might be A.74. It is true that Sgt Hudson's MM account says his commander was killed, but the commander of A.74 was badly injured.

    PS also wondering if anyone has the Staff Yeo war diary for those two days?

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